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2021 Dodge Durango Tow n’ Go 3.0 Whipple! Hellcat stage 2 cam & Heads

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Discussion starter · #21 ·
Discussion starter · #22 ·
CraigerSS said:
Sweet! Need more install pics. And Vids! Vids! Vids!

I dropped mine off today, the Whipple came in last week. I guess HP tuners is currently backed up and it will be 2 to 2-1/2 weeks to get the ECU unlocked. Hopefully, I'll be shredding rubber by the end of the month.
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Where you located and who’s doing the work. Btw whatever you do-Do NOT, Just dont…try and adjust tire size or gear ratio on a handheld tuner after. I just went to the dealer to have my ABS intialized because I accidentally did that(every brake light, traction came on). $75 later
 
#23 ·
skyboy666 said:
Where you located and who’s doing the work. Btw whatever you do-Do NOT, Just dont…try and adjust tire size or gear ratio on a handheld tuner after. I just went to the dealer to have my ABS intialized because I accidentally did that(every brake light, traction came on). $75 later
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Use OBDJScan to do an ABS initialize procedure. Have to pay for the license but way cheaper and more available than going to the dealer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#24 ·
Hi-Tech Motorsports, outside the Minneapolis suburbs only about 15mins from me. They let me unpack the Whipple and check out the parts. I'm going to back next week to check progress. Cool guys and lots of "Go Fast cars" to check out, and interesting vids online.

skyboy666 said:
Where you located and who’s doing the work. Btw whatever you do-Do NOT, Just dont…try and adjust tire size or gear ratio on a handheld tuner after. I just went to the dealer to have my ABS intialized because I accidentally did that(every brake light, traction came on). $75 later
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#26 ·
skyboy666 said:
It’s rainy af here. Drove it home last night( took an Uner there, about 20miles) took the long way of course. It definitely rips. Ecu has to learn apparently. She was a bit jerky on tip-in. Smoothed out today. Stage 2 heads and stage 2 Hellcat cam. Surprised it made that much power. I’ll post videos and tickets soon!
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5 quarts?
 
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Discussion starter · #27 ·
Update: it’s been a few week. I’ve been having problems with the tune. She hesitates(spudders) on launch and its having trouble getting under 5sec on a 0-60 run. Still has the stock throttle body tho. Not sure if thats the issue.
i bought a throttle commander to see if that would resolve the issue.
throttle has been hanging the whole time. Wrote that off to the cam, but I noticed i can cruise at 25mph all day without touching the throttle.
hopefully it gets resolved. I looked at doing some remote tuning with some other companies, but I’m not ready to swap ECU’s for someone else.
I know this is all a bit of a gripe fest, sorry
Livernois has been decent, however, I’m on my second tune and I’m starting to question if the 624whp is real or not.
 
#28 ·
Sorry to hear this Skyboy.
I have a few questions?
Have they disabled the cam variable phasing?
or
Does the cam phasing need to be limited for the this cam?
How does it idle? How is moderate acceleration?
Also, I wonder if the stage 2 hellcat cam is the issue, and curious if a stock hellcat tune would be a good place to start.

Just throwing ideas out there. Keep us updated
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
CraigerSS said:
Sorry to hear this Skyboy.
I have a few questions?
Have they disabled the cam variable phasing?
or
Does the cam phasing need to be limited for the this cam?
How does it idle? How is moderate acceleration?
Also, I wonder if the stage 2 hellcat cam is the issue, and curious if a stock hellcat tune would be a good place to start.

Just throwing ideas out there. Keep us updated
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Cam phasers we’re definitely installed. Idle is smooth at around 750-800rpm. But she does hang
I know these guys have made some impressive Mopars go fast.
I was honestly searching for a vacuum leak for about4 days until they sent me the first re-tune. It was alot better after that. But still wasn’t what I expected. Still stumbled under har accel.
i didn’t even realize I still had the stock TB until last night(I was web searching issues with Whipple tb’s) and tried to see under the hood which one I had and realized ITS STOCK! I was a little shocked actually
In my dyno chart, there is a hard dip off the jump. Salesman claims that’s converter slip. I’m thinking that could be my same issue.
I’ve been data logging but they haven’t asked for any of that yet. Hopefully they’d like to see some data instead of throwing tunes off the shelf at it.
I dont mind putting a new throttle body on, in fact, I’ve reached out to several companies asking for recommendations for my set up. And if the stock TB is sufficient. I’m assuming I should be using a Hellcat or above size. Whipple makes a 102mm specifically for Hemis.
If not resolved I’ll probably sell the thing. It’s awesome and sound awesome. I’m just disappointed. I mean 4.7 0-60(mashing the brake and gas to the floor) is not acceptable at this (supposed) HP#. Timing was done on Torque pro and dashboard. Hope to get a new tune tomorrow. I really hope the ask for data, I’d be more confident in what they send. We shall see
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
CraigerSS said:
Could be torque management taking a ton of timing out, too.
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Absolutely. I’ve been looking at the logs(I’m no tuner by any stretch) but I’m going to log some hard launches and try to get them to look.
fyi. My initial tune kept popping a bank 2 sensor 1 o2 code after a hard launch. Fixed that after the re-tune. Hopefully 3 times-a-charm
 
#32 ·
@skyboy666 I saw your post about throttle hanging. There is an issue with 2021 R/T models that if you drop into neutral (let's say when you are going 20mph) and snap the throttle, it will stay at what ever it revved up to. You need to pull over and have the vehicle come to a stop before the RPMs drop. That may be part of the issue with your throttle hanging.
There is no fix because Dodge is perfect and corporate feel no need to fix or update things.
 
#33 ·
Vice-White said:
@skyboy666 I saw your post about throttle hanging. There is an issue with 2021 R/T models that if you drop into neutral (let's say when you are going 20mph) and snap the throttle, it will stay at what ever it revved up to. You need to pull over and have the vehicle come to a stop before the RPMs drop. That may be part of the issue with your throttle hanging.
There is no fix because Dodge is perfect and corporate feel no need to fix or update things.
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@Vice-White I'm a little late here....I hate that the throttle sticks like that, I have done that at different speeds and always hangs, have to just throw it back into drive for it to correct itself. And it will drive itself at low speed almost like it hangs throttle in drive also...
 
#34 ·
On a stock DD 5.7L, assuming you have the 5.7L, a 2.9L Whipple Kit, stage 2, with 9psi boost can get 561 RWH and a 4.0 0-60 fully loaded with two people on board. I think this is pushing it for longevity even if you are running cool and change the oil every 3K miles. The stock pistons and connecting rods are the weak spot. Adding the cam probably can get you to the 624RWH with the correct tune. How is your Air/Fuel ratio throughout the RPM band, is the fuel pump or booster maintaining your fuel pressure, and what size injectors are you running? You may also want to flow test your injectors. If you have a bad torque converter, Circle D Specialties makes a great Torque converter good for 1,000HP as a direct replacement on the ZF 8HP70 trans. Just some ideas. . .
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
Enthusiast said:
On a stock DD 5.7L, assuming you have the 5.7L, a 2.9L Whipple Kit, stage 2, with 9psi boost can get 561 RWH and a 4.0 0-60 fully loaded with two people on board. I think this is pushing it for longevity even if you are running cool and change the oil every 3K miles. The stock pistons and connecting rods are the weak spot. Adding the cam probably can get you to the 624RWH with the correct tune. How is your Air/Fuel ratio throughout the RPM band, is the fuel pump or booster maintaining your fuel pressure, and what size injectors are you running? You may also want to flow test your injectors. If you have a bad torque converter, Circle D Specialties makes a great Torque converter good for 1,000HP as a direct replacement on the ZF 8HP70 trans. Just some ideas. . .
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3.0 Whipple. I have been remote tuning with OST Dyno. Livernois Motorsports did the build, but I had so many issues with them. Turns out they had it tuned for a 2 bar MAP, When actually a 3 bar Hellcat Map was installed. The Dyno numbers must have been a lie...Because the pulley they had installed was only good for 6#. It has been a cluster getting a new PCM and starting over. Now I'm possibly having issues with PCM connections causing KR and not allowing power enrichment. AFR's have been 14-15. We're working out the PCM issues to possibly start doing some WOT runs. It's been beyond frustrating
 
#36 · (Edited)
Sorry for your frustration and glad there are others brave enough to take on these challenges, even though it was not expected. I hope mine is smoother. Please keep me updated.

If you are running less than 15lbs of boost should you be using a "2 Bar Map Sensor"?
If 1 atmosphere at sea level = 1 bar and 15 psi boost = 1 bar, 1 + 1 = 2 bar for the best map sensor and tune resolution. I am not sure how this works but someone on this forum would love to correct me if this is wrong. I better check to see what map sensor I have before the tuner gets started. Thanks for the heads up. You should probably get a boost gauge kit, fuel pressure gauge kit, and A/F wideband gauge kit. You already have oil pressure gauge. These three gauges will help you see something wrong where you may not notice normally. Also, I am curios what your oil pressure is after the engine is hot and idling for 10 minutes.
 
#37 ·
Curious if you guys are AWD or RWD & if you are RWD, did you do anything to the rear (LSD ??).
 
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#38 · (Edited)
Mine is RWD stock 3.09 Rear Axle Ratio with 230MM Rear Axle. I will see how that works out with the new setup with a Circle D 2,800 stall torque converter on a stock ZF 8HP70 transmission

I may need to upgrade stock in-tank fuel pump to TI Automotive (Walbro) Hellcat 525lph fuel pump = 470lph = 120+gph @13.5V. The current setup is the stock in-tank fuel pump (38gph@12V, 1/3 the capacity) with an in-line MSD fuel pump booster that comes with the Whipple kit. The Walbro pump should eliminate the need for the booster.
 
Discussion starter · #40 ·
Enthusiast said:
Mine is RWD stock 3.09 Rear Axle Ratio with 230MM Rear Axle. I will see how that works out with the new setup with a Circle D 2,800 stall torque converter on a stock ZF 8HP70 transmission

I may need to upgrade stock in-tank fuel pump to TI Automotive (Walbro) Hellcat 525lph fuel pump = 470lph = 120+gph @13.5V. The current setup is the stock in-tank fuel pump (38gph@12V, 1/3 the capacity) with an in-line MSD fuel pump booster that comes with the Whipple kit. The Walbro pump should eliminate the need for the booster.
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I am running a boost a pump. Stock TB and ID1050X injectors. If you have HP Tuners VCM Scanner I can upload a Log and you can see all the parameters. HP Tuners is pretty wild. Thankfully this morning OSTDyno just sent me a final revision. It's running like a raped ape currently. Been waiting on longtubes forever it seems.

But I am running an aftermarket boost gauge as well as an Innovate AFR meter. I'll be posting some pics soon
 
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