[Robfrmny21]

I enjoyed reading all the post of opinions of Leo’s vehicles. Keep this going

 

[MotorCityMade]

I too, was at the testing once again, as an OE representative. There are many comments in this thread that are not factual. And thats OK if throwing out opinions, but listing what is or is not included, should be factual, not guesses, what you may have saw, or heard. Just my 2 cents, spend it wisely. Durango does not include spotlights, rubber floor. There are no split lines for it inside JNAP like there are for the Charger Pursuit inside Brampton Assembly.

The durango was tested as a "lets see what it will do" case. Ford did the same with the F150 and fusion hybrid. All passed.

"Pursuit rated" is technically not a real thing. I am sure Google will tell you different, and many in the industry much the same. But those of us with decades in the OE and equipment side understand and remember that it was a marketing ploy from Ford. Does anyone think a Fury or Caprice classic was pursuit rated!?!? Lol. It was something that caught fire and was catchy. And now it is a false standard. There is no set of parameters to follow, only performace specs that have become an expectation...things like passing the road course and having a certified Speedo.. and thats about it! Do those things and fleets will eat em up. End of rant.

 

[Pauls72]

We just traded in a 2015 SXT V6 for a used 2016 SSV V8.
SSV is kind of a stripped down Durango. It has no 3rd seat, but has storage compartments under the floor instead. No roof racks, no rear controls for the heat/AC. It has a key lock on the tail gate. Skid plates, heavy duty cooling and 220 amp alternator. There are no Uconnect buttons on the mirror for 911 and Assist. Instead of having 3rd row arm rests there are pockets in the cargo space sides panels. Side and rear windows are tinted darker. Yes, the speed-odometer does say Certified. It has regular cloth seats and carpets. Ours came with WeatherTech floor mats and cargo liner on top of the carpets.

Last winter bought a Travel Trailer and the V6 struggled when we went out west. It did OK in the mountains, but on the open highways in North Dakota, Wyoming, Iowa, Nebraska etc... if you had any kind of head wind, forget it, the 3.6L V6 wouldn't cut it. So I did a lot of drafting of trucks.

We found a very low mileage 2016 SSV with a 5.7L V8. Both of them had the tow package. The SSV rides and handles a little stiffer, I'm guessing is partly due to the extra weight of the V8. It's way easier to break the tires loose in the ice and snow. The only things we miss from the SXT are the heated seats and the larger 8.4 screen for the backup camera.

There is one issue we found with buying a SSV, the insurance companies and BMV/DMV don't have the SSV model in their computer systems. So it's a pain and plan to spend extra time getting insurance and getting the thing registered with the state. When they ask what model is it and you say Special Service Vehicle they give you a strange look and say that is not an option. Then when they pick any of the other models they get an error saying the model doesn't match the VIN.
On the good side, insurance is slightly cheaper on the 2016 SSV than the 2015 SXT.

 

[Robfrmny21]

I too, was at the testing once again, as an OE representative. There are many comments in this thread that are not factual. And thats OK if throwing out opinions, but listing what is or is not included, should be factual, not guesses, what you may have saw, or heard. Just my 2 cents, spend it wisely. Durango does not include spotlights, rubber floor. There are no split lines for it inside JNAP like there are for the Charger Pursuit inside Brampton Assembly.

The durango was tested as a "lets see what it will do" case. Ford did the same with the F150 and fusion hybrid. All passed.

"Pursuit rated" is technically not a real thing. I am sure Google will tell you different, and many in the industry much the same. But those of us with decades in the OE and equipment side understand and remember that it was a marketing ploy from Ford. Does anyone think a Fury or Caprice classic was pursuit rated!?!? Lol. It was something that caught fire and was catchy. And now it is a false standard. There is no set of parameters to follow, only performace specs that have become an expectation...things like passing the road course and having a certified Speedo.. and thats about it! Do those things and fleets will eat em up. End of rant.

If I remember right to be pursuit rated you need to complete a series of brake test with out fade , lane change at xx speed safely and xxx minimum top speed
Not who created this but the video I saw involved chp using crown vics

The crown vic interceptor Looks the same as regular cars but had a ton different the average person would never know.

 

[bob902]

I am on my fifth police package Tahoe since 2007. I currently have a 2015 and I wish I had my 2013 back. The older styles handled so much better. As a pursuit driving instructor, I have driven lots of different police vehicles on the track. The 2007 to 2014 model Tahoes are my favorite. I would like to have the chance to drive one of the new Rangos on the track to compare.

 

[Don Fox]

Motor City:
Would you care to expound a bit on what comments you feel are not factual. Folks have opinions based upon what they may have seen or heard, and I agree that there is a bunch of misinformation out there (politics anyone) about many topics. As you may know the MSP Evals have been in existence since the late 70's.

I would agree that the "pursuit rated" moniker has been overused, and blown out of proportion at times along the way. Yet, having been in the industry as long as you say, you know that there are things that are LE vehicle specific (not always go fast goodies) that separate them from the civilian cars. An excellent example would be that the CVPI had a heavier duty frame (more body mounts) than the civilian panther frame. As time went on, the engines and transmissions had less and less internal differences, and more was done via computer control with timing, shift points, etc.

Don

 

[DeaconBlue]

I have talked to the local police department about their Tahoes - they have both the AWD for regular patrol usage (surprised how often they have to use them off road) and a few RWD for highway pursuit use on the local interstate. They love them - they say they are better and more versatile than any other vehicle. The state troopers (and border patrol agents) use the Tahoes as well as the ubiquitous Chargers.

 

[MotorCityMade]

Motor City:
Would you care to expound a bit on what comments you feel are not factual. Folks have opinions based upon what they may have seen or heard, and I agree that there is a bunch of misinformation out there (politics anyone) about many topics. As you may know the MSP Evals have been in existence since the late 70's.

I would agree that the "pursuit rated" moniker has been overused, and blown out of proportion at times along the way. Yet, having been in the industry as long as you say, you know that there are things that are LE vehicle specific (not always go fast goodies) that separate them from the civilian cars. An excellent example would be that the CVPI had a heavier duty frame (more body mounts) than the civilian panther frame. As time went on, the engines and transmissions had less and less internal differences, and more was done via computer control with timing, shift points, etc.

Don

Ive spent almost 20 years decoding the differences being discussed here, and it still is evolving constantly present-day. So i know with a few short messages, we cannot possibly get into that kind of detail. In short, OE does much less to altering civilian platforms, than most believe. The police fleet business is just not that lucrative to most OEs. Sure it moves more metal for them, but at 80k units combined per year across all makes and models, its not top of mind within the organzations. Ford stands the most to lose, they hold over half the market, hence their efforts are higher. But seeing a Durango with spotlights and rubber floors (which was what i was referring to as inaccurate when someone posted you could add these sales codes), is unlikely.
Simple options like this cost millions to incorporate, and with a take rate of about 2000 units or less per year (WD SSV), do the math. With chassis changes looming near for all dodgelaw products, the future is uncertain of which path will be taken, more involvement (investment) or less. Only time will tell. Im not an expert at much of anything in this world, but gun to my head, this subject matter would be my best chance. I really hope for all of us involved, that OE and aftermarket continue to grow, but the 80k number is not gonna change much in my lifetime, it is simply who gets what piece of the pie. And therefore, who invests the most in changes and offerings on the platforms.

 

[tomk]

The SSV market mostly needs minor tweaks; this is a kind of "industrial vehicle" market, which is also convenient for non-pursuit police use.. the features, I'm guessing, are mostly in the areas of facilitating add-ons (radios, lights, etc), heavy-duty seats and so forth, more cargo area, ability to install a partition behind the front seats (not only for police; other applications need to make sure cargo doesn't behead someone).. so it's really a "commercial fleet" vehicle..

The actual pursuit market is much narrower, and needs more work to play.. whether a manufacturer goes for this market depends on whether they want to make a run at this small market.. the various manufacturers have done just this over the decades.. IIRC Ford was a big player in the early 50s, Chrysler was a big player mid-50s thru mid-60s, all three were in the game mid-60s thru mid-70s, then it was mostly Chevy and Ford dueling into the late 80s, then GM lost interest and left it to Ford until they decided that the crown vic needed to die.. It is kind of a mishmosh now, because gone are the days where simple mods to a mainline vehicle are enough to be "pursuit" ..

all of this IMHO, of course..

...tom

 

[Prospect62]

But seeing a Durango with spotlights and rubber floors (which was what i was referring to as inaccurate when someone posted you could add these sales codes)

I'm assuming your comments are directed at least partially at me, so I will respond.

I am aware that FCA does not install spotlights. An upfitter does. Ford & GM install them, but I digress. Anyway, my point was that spotlights do not a police package make. I did say that the SSV included them (which would be incorrect), and I should have clarified that they were installed by an upfitter, not by FCA, just like the lightbar, console, etc.

Secondly, I was using rubber floors facetiously, as an example. I have driven several SSV Durangos, going back to 2009. None had rubber floors. So I know they don't come with them. Many SSV and police package vehicles do, in fact I pointed out in one of my posts that I thought it was odd that the Durango SSV DIDN'T come with them.

listing what is or is not included, should be factual, not guesses, what you may have saw,

I think "what I saw" is an excellent way to judge what is or is not offered on a Durango SSV. If it's physically present and/or on the window sticker, it comes with it. I don't think I ever "guessed" what an SSV Durango had on it, and even if I did, I never presented that as gospel. Maybe that one wasn't directed at me.

MY2019, Durango SSV will become Durango Pursuit.

But also...

"Pursuit rated" is technically not a real thing.

Huh? I think I said the same thing. I even mentioned that MSP does not apply that moniker to anything. But I do find it kind of funny that someone "from the OE" would come on here blasting us mere mortals not "from the OE" and try to make the point that "pursuit rated is not a real thing", meanwhile claiming that "MY2019, Durango SSV will become Durango Pursuit" and knowing that the Chargers that FCA sent to the MSP testing had "PURSUIT" in huge letters down the side of them...

The fact that you're "from the OE" is pretty cool, actually. I'd LOVE a job in the auto industry that put me where you've been. But I've been into restoring police vehicles for a long time (yep, back when police package MEANT upgraded components) and driving them for almost as long. I pay more attention to what makes a police car a police car MUCH more than average Joe on the Durango forums. Please don't preach to me like I don't know, because I do.

The fact that "OE does much less to altering civilian platforms, than most believe" is very plain to see, especially in the Durango. But it didn't always use to be that way. Just the cost-cutting, high profit, do-it-as-cheaply-as-we-possibly-can and screw the end-user times we live in nowadays.

I think FCA (and I assume that this is the "OE" you're associated with) stands to make a big move for Ford's market share, chassis changes or not. The Charger is poised to be a frontrunner that is catching fire big time... with NYSP, CHP and many other large departments nationwide switching to them almost exclusively. I'm sure you're aware of that. FCA could swipe a lot of market share away from Ford if they commit to the Charger as a police car. But, as you said, the police fleet market is small potatoes to every "OE" (except Ford seemingly), so who knows what'll happen.

Simple options like this cost millions to incorporate, and with a take rate of about 2000 units or less per year (WD SSV), do the math.

If FCA invested a bit more into the WD SSV, it'd do much better. That's my contention. It's a nice medium between the Tahoe and Explorer. Make some real HD improvements (and advertise them) and stop shipping them with goofy aluminum wheels and maybe police and SSV buyers will take them more seriously.

The durango was tested as a "lets see what it will do" case.

And clearly this was the attitude of FCA when they even thought of offering an SSV Durango. Pure afterthought and "okay I guess we will do it" attitude. How can you expect that to succeed?

then it was mostly Chevy and Ford dueling into the late 80s, then GM lost interest and left it to Ford until they decided that the crown vic needed to die..

...tom

Chrysler owned the 80's, hands down, bar none. The M-body (Diplomat & Gran Fury) was as ubiquitous 1981-1989 as the Crown Vic was from 1998-2011.

 

[Prospect62]

By the way MotorCityMade, since you're "from the OE" can you PLEASE tell me when the HELL I will be getting an alternator? Does FCA have any idea how badly they've dropped the ball on this alternator recall?

 

[Don Fox]

Deacon:
IIRC, from '05-'14 the LE Tahoe was available in two forms being the RWD PPV (pursuit) and the 5W4 which was 4wd, but not recommended for high speed operation. In '15, Chevy introduced the AWD PPV which was much needed. The RWD PPV was great for running up and down the road in good weather, but not so much when the weather got bad. It helped quite a bit to have winter tires at all 4 corners, but traveling through medians, etc is where the AWD should shine.
I had the chance to drive both the versions of the PPV at MSP this past September, and both were impressive running them around the small road course there. Speed was limited to 50 mph BTW.

Don

 

[gonzo628]

my 15 SSV (v6) has rear a/c controls (but only in the uconnect menu) the mounting point is blank in the second row.

 

[DeaconBlue]

Deacon:
IIRC, from '05-'14 the LE Tahoe was available in two forms being the RWD PPV (pursuit) and the 5W4 which was 4wd, but not recommended for high speed operation. In '15, Chevy introduced the AWD PPV which was much needed. The RWD PPV was great for running up and down the road in good weather, but not so much when the weather got bad. It helped quite a bit to have winter tires at all 4 corners, but traveling through medians, etc is where the AWD should shine.
I had the chance to drive both the versions of the PPV at MSP this past September, and both were impressive running them around the small road course there. Speed was limited to 50 mph BTW.

Don

Very cool! I thought it was a bit risque to have a RWD pursuit up north with cold snowy weather 4-5 months out of the year.

 

[DeaconBlue]

If I remember right to be pursuit rated you need to complete a series of brake test with out fade , lane change at xx speed safely and xxx minimum top speed
Not who created this but the video I saw involved chp using crown vics

The crown vic interceptor Looks the same as regular cars but had a ton different the average person would never know.

Sorry, but on a less than serious note, the first thing that came to my mind was;

Elwood says, "It's got a cop motor, a 440-cubic-inch plant. It's got cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks. It's a model made before catalytic converters so it'll run good on regular gas."

 

[MotorCityMade]

But seeing a Durango with spotlights and rubber floors (which was what i was referring to as inaccurate when someone posted you could add these sales codes)

I'm assuming your comments are directed at least partially at me, so I will respond.

I am aware that FCA does not install spotlights. An upfitter does. Ford & GM install them, but I digress. Anyway, my point was that spotlights do not a police package make. I did say that the SSV included them (which would be incorrect), and I should have clarified that they were installed by an upfitter, not by FCA, just like the lightbar, console, etc.

Ford and GM technically do not install the spotlights, but regardless. Charger is done on the assembly line. Only chassis i am aware of that does. Also Ford and Mopar do offer equipment on the window sticker such as: perimeter/interior lights, console, equipment tray, ballistics, etc.

Secondly, I was using rubber floors facetiously, as an example. I have driven several SSV Durangos, going back to 2009. None had rubber floors. So I know they don't come with them. Many SSV and police package vehicles do, in fact I pointed out in one of my posts that I thought it was odd that the Durango SSV DIDN'T come with them.

listing what is or is not included, should be factual, not guesses, what you may have saw,

I think "what I saw" is an excellent way to judge what is or is not offered on a Durango SSV. If it's physically present and/or on the window sticker, it comes with it. I don't think I ever "guessed" what an SSV Durango had on it, and even if I did, I never presented that as gospel. Maybe that one wasn't directed at me.

I hope all makes and models offer more equipment to improve the vehicles for duty...i agree

MY2019, Durango SSV will become Durango Pursuit.

But also...

"Pursuit rated" is technically not a real thing.

Huh? I think I said the same thing. I even mentioned that MSP does not apply that moniker to anything. But I do find it kind of funny that someone "from the OE" would come on here blasting us mere mortals not "from the OE" and try to make the point that "pursuit rated is not a real thing", meanwhile claiming that "MY2019, Durango SSV will become Durango Pursuit" and knowing that the Chargers that FCA sent to the MSP testing had "PURSUIT" in huge letters down the side of them...

"Pusuit rated": industry term
Charger Pursuit: Model/trim



The fact that you're "from the OE" is pretty cool, actually. I'd LOVE a job in the auto industry that put me where you've been. But I've been into restoring police vehicles for a long time (yep, back when police package MEANT upgraded components) and driving them for almost as long. I pay more attention to what makes a police car a police car MUCH more than average Joe on the Durango forums. Please don't preach to me like I don't know, because I do.

I did not mean to come across preachy. My apologies. Being arrogant was not my intention as I was seeing some intelligible conversation on a topic that intrests me, and was interjecting to the best of my ability.

The fact that "OE does much less to altering civilian platforms, than most believe" is very plain to see, especially in the Durango. But it didn't always use to be that way. Just the cost-cutting, high profit, do-it-as-cheaply-as-we-possibly-can and screw the end-user times we live in nowadays.

 

[Prospect62]

Fair enough. I distinctly recall GM having an RPO code (7X6 I believe) for factory installed post mount spotlights. I know for a fact that the 81-89 Diplomat/Gran Fury had a factory installed spot light option. I was 90% sure that the CVPI had factory installed spotlights as a sales code option. But, being in the position you're in you may be able to teach me something here. I'm always willing to learn new stuff! My expertise doesn't really include anything 2015 and newer, and you are definitely in a position to teach us all about those models and man, I want to know!

Now, when can I expect an alternator? :mrgreen:

 

[MotorCityMade]

Fair enough. I distinctly recall GM having an RPO code (7X6 I believe) for factory installed post mount spotlights. I know for a fact that the 81-89 Diplomat/Gran Fury had a factory installed spot light option. I was 90% sure that the CVPI had factory installed spotlights as a sales code option. But, being in the position you're in you may be able to teach me something here. I'm always willing to learn new stuff! My expertise doesn't really include anything 2015 and newer, and you are definitely in a position to teach us all about those models and man, I want to know!

Now, when can I expect an alternator?

Haha sorry bud, I do not work for FCA, although they are my favorite personal car of choice. I have had the pleasure of moving around a few times and working with all OEs over the years, but never in service, to help you out.

The factory options, for the most part, are installed at Tier 1 upfitters, or OE owned/operated-upfitters. GM uses Kerr in texas and Ontario, Ford uses TDM in Chicago, FCA uses Mopar custom shops in US/Ontario. Through the dealer or your OE fleet rep, you can add these equipment sales codes upon ordering. It will be on the window sticker, but installed after plant. Some options do get performed in plant with various OEs, but for arguments sake, most are off site. The stuff that is included as part of the model/trim package is always on site, i.e. rubber floor, vinyl seat, trans cooler, etc.

Ill take your word on anything pre 95, i cant speak with any clear knowledge on the process, I was just beginning the basics.

Again, small-unique industry we are in, and we should work together to better the products for the end user and not simply debate deficiencies. Sorry for the demeanor earlier.

 

[Prospect62]

Again, small-unique industry we are in, and we should work together to better the products for the end user and not simply debate deficiencies. Sorry for the demeanor earlier.

Agreed. If you don't work for FCA, I guess saying this won't matter but it'd be worth their while to invest just a little more time and money into the Durango as a true pursuit spec (or pursuit capable) patrol SUV. Real suspension and driveline upgrades, real brake upgrades, real cooling upgrades. Rubber floors. Steel wheels. HEMI power. Alternators that do not catch fire. Thoughtful things like a column shifter, doors that open with keys not buttons. Market it as such. There's a niche there being filled by the Tahoe and with some backbone injected into them, the Durangos could steal it. They have a winner with the Charger, why not shoot for the SUV market as well?

 

[MotorCityMade]

Again, small-unique industry we are in, and we should work together to better the products for the end user and not simply debate deficiencies. Sorry for the demeanor earlier.

Agreed. If you don't work for FCA, I guess saying this won't matter but it'd be worth their while to invest just a little more time and money into the Durango as a true pursuit spec (or pursuit capable) patrol SUV. Real suspension and driveline upgrades, real brake upgrades, real cooling upgrades. Rubber floors. Steel wheels. HEMI power. Alternators that do not catch fire. Thoughtful things like a column shifter, doors that open with keys not buttons. Market it as such. There's a niche there being filled by the Tahoe and with some backbone injected into them, the Durangos could steal it. They have a winner with the Charger, why not shoot for the SUV market as well?

If Dodge can make the business case to the suits @ FCA, anything is possible. I always secretly root for Dodge anyhow. Its not that they cant, but post 08, everyone is cautious on where the investments are and how much each program gets. Fortune 500/public companies can be really frustrating most days, process-wise. Takes a village and extreme persistence to get anything done. And more times than not it will go nowhere, but when it does....thats the payoff. i.e. Demon, Raptor, Zr1, Hellcat, Ford GT...imagining what those program teams went thru, to go from idea to launch, is pure beauty to me. Hopefully public safety gets some more chances in the future, to do much the same.