[troy2012durangodude]

O’Reilly and AutoZone (and others) show this as a starter relay for 2012 Durango but this matches nothing in the fuse block and I can find nothing about it’s location. Searching for starter relay always shows the starter solenoid relay or run/start relay in the fuse block. Does this relay actually go somewhere else in my car? It’s also listed as a 5-blade ignition relay and I guess may be fairly common among other vehicles. Any ideas?

 

[Duh-rango]

Relay K3, see pdf. The starter solenoid is located on the starter and it acts as a heavy duty relay to pass the high current to the starter itself, and it also pushes out the starter gear to engage it to the flywheel.

If you want an FSM to explain starter operation, go here.

McDowell County Public Library - Chilton Auto Repair

mcdowellpubliclibrary.org

BTW if you ever have issues with your fuel pump relay, it is not replaceable and in fact there is a recall which will install an aftermarket relay which will also fail eventually. There is a site that explains a better alternative which is what I did on my 2013 JGC.

TIPM Fuel Pump Relay Solutions

verticalvisions.com

 

[troy2012durangodude]

Thank you Duh-Rango,

it is not K3. It doesn’t not match anything in the fuse block at all. I know where a solenoid is and what it does. But there are no relays in the fuse block listed as just starter relay. There are two that use the word start or starter in the name but not starter by itself. One is the K3 called “STARTER SOL RLY” and the other is “RUN/START RLY” and both of those are 4-blade micro relays with a part number 68083380AA. Since all the parts stores all list the green relay as a starter relay that fits my make model year and engine type that maybe this does actually go somewhere else that I am not aware of. Also, I had the TIPM/Fuel Pump Relay Recall done and that’s not related to my issue.

 

[Duh-rango]

Thank you Duh-Rango,

it is not K3. It doesn’t not match anything in the fuse block at all. I know where a solenoid is and what it does. But there are no relays in the fuse block listed as just starter relay. There are two that use the word start or starter in the name but not starter by itself. One is the K3 called “STARTER SOL RLY” and the other is “RUN/START RLY” and both of those are 4-blade micro relays with a part number 68083380AA. Since all the parts stores all list the green relay as a starter relay that fits my make model year and engine type that maybe this does actually go somewhere else that I am not aware of. Also, I had the TIPM/Fuel Pump Relay Recall done and that’s not related to my issue. View attachment 122237
View attachment 122236

I don't see how K3 is not the relay for the starter solenoid which controls the activation of the starter itself. The starter pulls so much current that no plug in relay can handle it which is why a starter solenoid is used (it is a giant relay for the starter). If the starter solenoid is not working it could be the 40 amp fuse that is blown.

But I see what you mean about the parts stores showing a different image for the relay but yet it calls it a mini relay.

68110956AA - Mopar Parts Giant

www.moparpartsgiant.com

As for your fuel pump relay recall, you better carry an extra relay for that as it is not uncommon for it to go out as well.

BTW what is the problem you are experiencing, you never mentioned?

 

[Duh-rango]

FWIW a 2012 Ram fuse box calls K3 a starter relay.

 

[troy2012durangodude]

I agree K3 is a starter relay. Terminology on the lid (see above pic) says starter solenoid relay. Again I know what a solenoid is. It’s a high power version of a relay found on the starter to power the starter and engage the drive gear with the teeth on the flywheel.
So the problem I’m having is intermittent starting. It always starts if it cranks. Battery is good. Starter is new. I believe the signal is not getting to the starter. It’s not random and it’s not mechanical within the ignition switch. It always starts first drive of the day or if it’s been sitting for longer than 20 minutes after driving. Sometimes it takes a second turn if no response on the first turn, and sometimes a momentary hesitation before starting but always starts. After driving sometime, shut off the engine, turn it back in a try to start and it may not start. No cranking. Just some mysterious clicks. The dash lights and radio will shut off. After five seconds they come back, try to start again and dash lights and radio go off again, then back again 5 seconds and so on. If I keep trying, it will never start. If I let it rest 10 and try, if may not start and the 20 minute clock restarts. If I wait 20 minutes it usually starts up fine. Does not appear to be affected by how hot or cold the day is. Engine temp is normal even on very hot days.

Since all the auto part stores seem to think this green relay goes on my car, I’d like to know where. Most guys in those places only know what the website tells them to say so I haven’t found a “car guy” that knows. I don’t want to return it if it’s something I can try to swap out and possibly fix our starting issue.

We had similar troubles when a GPS device required by our lender had communication problems. They sent a tech out and confirmed the error and replaced the part and then everything was fine. Then a few years later a similar problem occurred and we thought it might be the same device but our lender said we did not need to have it on our car anymore but it was our responsibility to have it removed - so we took it to an alarm company who removed it and also found an additional GPS that we didn’t even know about and removed that too. We assume since the car was originally a lease that the leasing company had a GPS on there as well. After those were removed the problem was fixed then slowly started happening again and getting more frequent and now is happening in this pattern I described above.

 

[Duh-rango]

I agree K3 is a starter relay. Terminology on the lid (see above pic) says starter solenoid relay. Again I know what a solenoid is. It’s a high power version of a relay found on the starter to power the starter and engage the drive gear with the teeth on the flywheel.
So the problem I’m having is intermittent starting. It always starts if it cranks. Battery is good. Starter is new. I believe the signal is not getting to the starter. It’s not random and it’s not mechanical within the ignition switch. It always starts first drive of the day or if it’s been sitting for longer than 20 minutes after driving. Sometimes it takes a second turn if no response on the first turn, and sometimes a momentary hesitation before starting but always starts. After driving sometime, shut off the engine, turn it back in a try to start and it may not start. No cranking. Just some mysterious clicks. The dash lights and radio will shut off. After five seconds they come back, try to start again and dash lights and radio go off again, then back again 5 seconds and so on. If I keep trying, it will never start. If I let it rest 10 and try, if may not start and the 20 minute clock restarts. If I wait 20 minutes it usually starts up fine. Does not appear to be affected by how hot or cold the day is. Engine temp is normal even on very hot days.

Since all the auto part stores seem to think this green relay goes on my car, I’d like to know where. Most guys in those places only know what the website tells them to say so I haven’t found a “car guy” that knows. I don’t want to return it if it’s something I can try to swap out and possibly fix our starting issue.

We had similar troubles when a GPS device required by our lender had communication problems. They sent a tech out and confirmed the error and replaced the part and then everything was fine. Then a few years later a similar problem occurred and we thought it might be the same device but our lender said we did not need to have it on our car anymore but it was our responsibility to have it removed - so we took it to an alarm company who removed it and also found an additional GPS that we didn’t even know about and removed that too. We assume since the car was originally a lease that the leasing company had a GPS on there as well. After those were removed the problem was fixed then slowly started happening again and getting more frequent and now is happening in this pattern I described above.

How do you know the battery is good, did you have it tested? I provided the wiring diagram and if you see that the starter solenoid is getting power when pressing start the solenoid is bad...even though you say the starter is new. Now if you are not getting power to the solenoid then it can be the solenoid relay (K3), TIPM board (not serviceable), WIN (was recalled on other models but not on your year durango) or PCM. But if you are saying you sometimes get just clicking makes me think you either have a bad battery or bad ground/connection somewhere.

CONDITION	POSSIBLE CAUSE	CORRECTION
STARTER FAILS TO OPERATE	1. Battery discharged or inoperative	1. Charge and test battery (Refer to Electrical/8F - Engine Systems/Battery System - Diagnosis and Testing). Replace battery, if required.
2. Starter motor or solenoid inoperative	2. Test the starter motor and solenoid (Refer to Electrical/8F - Engine Systems/Starting/STARTER - Diagnosis and Testing). Replace starter motor, if required.
3. Starter relay inoperative	3. See Wiring Information. Test and replace the starter relay, if required
4. Clutch pedal position switch inoperative (if equipped with manual transmission)	4. See Clutch Pedal Position Switch. Test and adjust or replace switch, if required.
5. Park/Neutral position switch inoperative (if equipped with automatic transmission)	5. See Park/Neutral Position Switch. Test and adjust or replace switch, if required.
6. Ignition switch inoperative	6. Test the Ignition Switch and Key Lock Cylinder. Replace ignition switch if required.
7. Starting circuit wiring inoperative	7. See Wiring Information. Test and repair starter feed and/or control circuits, if required.
STARTER ENGAGES, BUT FAILS TO TURN ENGINE	1. Battery discharged or inoperative	1. Charge and test battery (Refer to Electrical/8F - Engine Systems/Battery System - Diagnosis and Testing). Replace battery if required.
2. Starter motor or solenoid inoperative	2. Test the starter motor and solenoid (Refer to Electrical/8F - Engine Systems/Starting/STARTER - Diagnosis and Testing). Replace starter motor if required.
3. Starting circuit wiring inoperative	3. See Wiring Information. Test and repair starter feed and/or control circuits, if required.
4. Engine seized	4. See 9 - Engine. Test and repair engine as required.

BTW don't throw parts at it, use the diagnostic section in the link below under the starting system section.

McDowell County Public Library - Chilton Auto Repair

mcdowellpubliclibrary.org

 

[Tin Foil Hat]

There's no guarantee that the "new" starter you got is good. This sounds like a bad starter solenoid that is iffy when it gets warm.

 

[troy2012durangodude]

Can anyone tell me where the green relay goes? That’s all I really want to know right now.

 

[Duh-rango]

Are K1 and K2 5 blade 40amp?

This reminds me of where on challengers one of the diodes in the rear fuse box was cataloged a fuse in parts catalogs which a member had a heck of a time finding the diode.

 

[DuRonbo]

Are you sure that's not the Fuel Pump Relay that they used in the recall for the TIPM? It has the same pin count and orientation/pattern as the Omron relays that were used in the recall.

If you do a Duck Duck Go search for that Mopar 68110956AA listed in the link in post #4 and look for images. Some of them list that exact same green relay as a fuel pump relay.

 

[Duh-rango]

I honestly think the parts catalogs have it wrong. I checked the 2013 catalog and it no longer lists the different relays by fusebox function, it instead calls the relays micro or mini.

 

[DuRonbo]

68110956AA - Mopar Parts Giant

www.moparpartsgiant.com

That link also shows a 2nd gen IPM for the diagram on the location of the relay!

 

[Duh-rango]

68110956AA - Mopar Parts Giant

www.moparpartsgiant.com

That link also shows a 2nd gen IPM for the diagram on the location of the relay!

Yeah and that is for 2012 but if you look at 2013 the correct box is shown.

 

[DuRonbo]

Cross referenced parts for 68110956AA show that relay as being for the AC compressor clutch, transmission control, ignition, etc.

K3 is the Starter Relay. Have you pulled the K3 relay out of the TIPM and looked at the arrangement of the pins? Does the green relay fit in the socket for relay K3?

I know that your pictures show gray relays that are a different size/shape but it looks like there's extra room around those gray relays where a larger relay could fit in.

 

[DuRonbo]

Or better yet...pull out your gray K3 relay and take a picture of the bottom of it and the pins.

 

[troy2012durangodude]

Here’s the bottom of the gray K3 relay. Incidentally except for K1 & K2, the remaining 8 other "K" relays are this identical relay.

(see next post)

 

[troy2012durangodude]

 

[DuRonbo]

That blows my theory!

 

[troy2012durangodude]

So not sure if this is helpful but the symbol:

)⚡(

shows up when it’s not starting but only then. If it starts the symbol goes away.