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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
A post for those searching for information...

First, if you are here looking for info stop everything and go read through Bryali's post here on his 2014. So much good information! I've posted most of my specific information there already.

Link here to Bryali's post: My Whipple Supercharged 2014 RT

http://www.dodgedurango.net/forums/dodge-durango-how-tos/20143-my-whipple-supercharged-2014-rt.html#/topics/20143?_k=l7h1e4

I am only creating an individual post for those looking to see who's done it specifically with a 2016 and to share my experience without hijacking other's threads...

Bought the RT in mid 2016. Sounded great, and was fairly zippy and fun. I've modded every car I've owned since college, and it's turned into a passion/hobby. I don't care for showy, I love sleepers...taking something cool and adding to it. A car is very personal to me, so stock will never do. Of course that can get expensive and I've paid the price over the years... my first power mod was around 1999 and was a 1996 Tahoe with a Vortech super charger and a 150hp shot of NOS...lol. Eventually blew the intake manifold off the top of the engine (and hood) stripping out the threads in the block. Scared the crap out of the people walking on the side walk.

Ok so I purchased the RT with the intention of Super Charging it, and specifically a Whipple. I've driven a Vortech (Tahoe), Eaton (Lightning), Procharger (SRT Challenger) and a Whipple (Denali) and for every day driving I really like the Whipple both in how it makes power as well as for the fit an finish, so that was the plan...

I put about 10k miles on it stock and worked on saving up and around xmas 2016 I took it to LMT in Waukesha WI to do the deed. Now previously I had installed every kit myself. I have the right tools and such, but so also have huge hands and arms so it makes many parts challenging. On top of that, Whipple did not have a canned tune for the 16's yet, so it had to be custom tuned anyways, and really a solid dyno tune for your car, altitude and regional fuel is the right way to go anyways, versus a canned tune that fits all fuel, altitude and engines generically. I also was a little intimidated to be honest as this install was a bit more involved than any I had done previously. So I left it to the pros. No finger pointing to be had if something went awry. So far nothing has.

They had the rig for a week. It came back just in time for Santa to drive it to my house. At this point I only had the Whipple on. Stock Exhaust and everything else, save some weather tech mats for the salty WI winters...

The first week it had some learning to do (the transmission). The 8HP70 transmission that's in the 14+ gen3 DDs had to figure out how to shift all over again. At the time of this post there is no TCM tune that I'm aware for these transmissions. That being said, 60ish days later I would say it shifts perfectly and drives like stock, only quicker, but I do believe it's also lost some power since I brought it home due to TCM interference/adaptation, more on that later... I didn't have any terrible slam shifts, just some slow shifts so that was a good start. The 8HP70 is the same transmission that is in the SRT Jeep, and in all other late model 392 non-super charged Chrysler vehicles I do believe. The 70, I learned, is short 700NM of torque, which equates to about 515ft-lbs - the max rating for the transmission. Mind you, this is input shaft rating, not wheel torque...more on that later. The Hellcat runs a 8HP90 transmission which is rated for...you guessed it, 900NM or about 663ft-lbs.

So I got the truck back with the Dyno sheet. Stock numbers were 293HP and 331ft-lbs of torque. The stock crank numbers from Dodge are listed as 360HP and 390ft-lbs AT THE CRANK. Now if you do the math and believe Chrysler's #s, that shows that the AWD drive-train is eating up 19-20%. To be honest that seems low to me for AWD as I was expecting closer to 30%, but without an engine dyno it's what we have to work with!

After tossing the Whipple on top, those figures jumped to 505HP and 491ft-lbs of torque at all wheels. If you add 20% to that to get approximate crank numbers you end up with 606HP and 589ft-lbs... 589ft-lbs on a transmission rated AND computer limited to 515ft-lbs.





The general consensus is that these transmissions are tough. There are quite a few Jeeps out there running these at 800-1000hp. Not to say they will last forever, but they seem to soak up the power just fine. Of course, time will tell.

The first couple weeks of driving on the new tune had some minor bumps but it improved each time. No show stoppers, but there was some sputtering under WOT just before and during shifts. I had my local tuner jump in the truck with me and do some logging. We found the TCM was overriding the ECM and was defueling near shift points due to torque overages. We don't know of a "fix" for this other than a TCM tune, which isn't available AFAIK. I'm looking at you HP Tuners! Get a 8HP70 tune out there already! :). What I believe happened is that the car learned its new power curves and has since dialed back the power to acceptable limits, at least during shifts. I haven't confirmed this on a dyno, but my butt-dyno tells me it's not quite as quick as it was when it first came home, however it is smooth, drives super nice and is still very quick.

With the Whipple came beefier injectors and a booster fuel pump. I learned while logging with my tuner that I was only at 60% duty cycle on those injectors, which is good. They aren't being maxed. In fact there's a lot more room for fuel, but I'll need built motor for any more power. There should be enough room to switch to an e85 tune if desired (not desired by me at this time) which could add another 100+ hp at the same boost level, which seems silly to me (or so I keep telling myself). It is still an SUV after all, and my daily driver.

One thing I noticed with the Whipple was my fairly raspy stock Exhaust sounded winded and sickly at WOT. When it was stock the Exhaust was great. Stock Exhaust great? Yah, on the RTs I think Dodge did a great job. Just enough throat hemi v8 snarl sound! I don't know how to explain it, but at WOT something was off. I didn't want harsh or loud Exhaust notes, I wanted a sleeper after all, but something was off with that stock Exhaust. I assumed we were just flowing too much through it. It sounded like it was gasping to keep up. So I swapped out for the Corsa system and haven't looked back. The Corsa sound is very subdued, unless you romp on it, and then it's not obnoxious, it's tuned and delightful! No highway droning, it's perfect. Just some forewarning with the meaty black tips out the back and a savings of like 50lbs over the stock system. The start up note is amazing too. I've had the windows down and started it up in parking lots and have heard guys go "oh wow!". Perfect snarl.

At about 1000 miles with the Whipple I started to get a squeal from the alternator. I replaced it with a new unit, which fixed it, but another 200 miles later the new one started doing the same thing. Crap. It's obnoxious and not what you want coming from the front end of a new vehicle. Nor do you want your alternator to fail! I'm thinking it's due to increased tension in the belt system needed to keep the SC pulley from slipping. The belief is that the Decoupling Pulley of the stock hemi alternator is failing in some manner. I have not yet solved this issue. I'm looking into other alternators that run a fixed pulley, but right now there's not much out there to try as an alternative. The alternator, thus far is putting out power just fine, but it's making a lot of noise while doing it...grr

I think it's important for anyone looking to do this kind of build to make sure you realize there will likely be some issues. You are taking a stock car, which can have issues stock, and pumping up power dramatically. You're always going to find the next weakest part, and in most cases when you do this, those parts won't be covered under warranty. I wouldn't suggest anyone do this kind of mod unless you are A) willing and able to tolerate some downtime occasionally and B) have an emergency fund dedicated for repairs just in case!

That being said, the smiles I get from this truck are worth the price of admission for me. The new SRT Durango looks awesome, but it still won't touch a Whipple'd DD RT without some sort of Forced Induction on it in terms of quickness/power. The SRT has a lot more than just the power, however. I'm not really comparing the two. The SRT will be a sweet ride for sure. Me, in case you hadn't heard, I prefer sleepers. :) I love to surprise people and don't want to be propositioned at every light. The Lightning and SRT Challenger got a lot of attention and were red-light challenged a lot. They also got me plenty of tickets... better for me to fly under the radar!

So that's where I'm at. Tuned to 93 octane (that's what all stations have for Premium around here) with the base Whipple pulley putting out 7-8.5lbs of boost. I have a noisy alternator issue to resolve, but enjoy having tons of power available to me under 2500rpm. I don't romp on the truck 99% (ok 90%....fine 80%) of the time. I do enjoy getting up to hwy speed briskly without having to exceed 2000rpms. That extra torque at low RPMs from the Whipple is lovely for that.

Pre Whipple I was averaging 17MPG and I drove quite spirited, probably more so than I do now. My drive to work it 10m of hwy and 10m of 45mph side roads with 6 stops lights and two stop signs. With the Whipple I'm at a solid 14MPG. It got up to 15MPG once when I was babying it for a week, but one WOT pull drops that down quick.

Transmission temps aren't much different all be it slightly elevated, mostly because I don't drive it hard all of the time. Temps rise quicker for sure with the Whipple. Pre Whipple I watched it for a week and saw 160F-180F. With the Whipple It gets to 180F-190F. The first week I had it back it hit 204F once, but since the TCM has recalibrate things it's steady around 185F and haven't see 200's since. This summer might be another story - we shall see.

Performance is great for a truck (in a straight line). It feels faster than my 12.2s Lightning @ 14psi of boost with a chip and 315 drag radials. Launch is easy mode, but quite abrupt. Hate doing it as I feel if ever something will break it will happen during a launch... I picked up a new G-tech SS Pro meter and hit my friend's airport (yes he owns an airport, and a Mig!) and it puts the truck at 12.0-12.2s @115-117mph and a 0-60 of 3.8s. Those are probably close but I'll wait for spring to see slips from the local drag strip where the numbers are more likely to not be skewed. I also weigh 3 bills, so there's probably more to be had with a lighter driver.

Holy crap, that's a lot of text to type all on a cell phone! Hope you all have the best of luck in your builds and I'll keep posting updates here with the good and the bad I run into during my journey!









2016 Dodge Durango RT - Whipple SC - Corsa Exhaust - 505AWHP
 

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Nice write up. I agree on the pulley tensioning, and my water pump went out within a week of having mine. I've had a slew of bad luck with my initial installer, and am currently working on fixing issues with mine. I'm hoping after this last round... That this should be it and I'll get to have my Durango for a while. Once I have my Durango to myself for a few weeks. I'll do my write up. =P
 

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Nice write up! I have thought many times of doing supercharger but thinking money and time wise of not having the car I will be just doing the SRT. Yes I know you can save money and put a supercharger on it and make more power the stock SRT. But like you guys have said there are always more to just slapping on a supercharger and going. Time withing getting tunes right.. then the small other little issues that you have. BUT you do save money in the long run!!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Nice write up! I have thought many times of doing supercharger but thinking money and time wise of not having the car I will be just doing the SRT. Yes I know you can save money and put a supercharger on it and make more power the stock SRT. But like you guys have said there are always more to just slapping on a supercharger and going. Time withing getting tunes right.. then the small other little issues that you have. BUT you do save money in the long run!!
Yep, not an apples to apples comparison. The SRT will be a comprehensive redo with interior, exterior and other performance upgrades, and will be warrantied! If I got an SRT, I'd be supercharging it too. I have a sickness...


2016 Dodge Durango RT - Whipple SC - Corsa Exhaust - 505AWHP
 

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Agreed, very nice write-up. My main concern with any s/c installation on the R/T would be the as noted the life expectancy of the 8HP70 trany and the accessory drive unit's bearings operating under the higher belt tension side loads.

Has anyone thought about swapping in the higher torque rated 8HP90 trany from the Hellcat?

Can you do something to the s/c pulley to increase the bite on the belt and/or eliminate the trapped gas between the belt and pulley that would allow you to lower the belt tension slight and possibly help to increase the bearing life in the accessories?

Some thing like this;
Increasing Serpentine Blower Pulley Grip With Carbinite - Dragzine

or this;
Rip cut a supercharger pulley - got some boost back! - LS1TECH

or this;
Reichard Racing Upper Pulleys Supercharger Pulleys Pulleys/Idlers 2003-2004 Ford SVT Cobra
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Agreed, very nice write-up. My main concern with any s/c installation on the R/T would be the as noted the life expectancy of the 8HP70 trany and the accessory drive unit's bearings operating under the higher belt tension side loads.

Has anyone thought about swapping in the higher torque rated 8HP90 trany from the Hellcat?

Can you do something to the s/c pulley to increase the bite on the belt and/or eliminate the trapped gas between the belt and pulley that would allow you to lower the belt tension slight and possibly help to increase the bearing life in the accessories?

Some thing like this;
Increasing Serpentine Blower Pulley Grip With Carbinite - Dragzine

or this;
Rip cut a supercharger pulley - got some boost back! - LS1TECH

or this;
Reichard Racing Upper Pulleys Supercharger Pulleys Pulleys/Idlers 2003-2004 Ford SVT Cobra
The 8HP90 is much longer than the 70, by like 22" I believe. Won't come close to fitting.

The guys at SouthernHotRod make a 1000HP build of the AWD 8HP70 that they warranty. The War Viking! It's pricey though, and without a TCM tune I'm not sure how they overcome the TCM override. Anyways, it's something I'm keeping in my back pocket. Bryali found these guys, and I believe they are well known in the Jeep SRT forums.

http://www.southernhotrod.com/product-p/shr-21040.htm

As for accessory line, there's some investigation there for sure. Thanks for the links!




2016 Dodge Durango RT - Whipple SC - Corsa Exhaust - 505AWHP
 

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The 8HP90 is much longer than the 70, by like 22" I believe. Won't come close to fitting.

The guys at SouthernHotRod make a 1000HP build of the AWD 8HP70 that they warranty. The War Viking! It's pricey though, and without a TCM tune I'm not sure how they overcome the TCM override. Anyways, it's something I'm keeping in my back pocket. Bryali found these guys, and I believe they are well known in the Jeep SRT forums.

SHR WAR VIKING ZF 8HP70 transmission 4wd JEEP SRT

As for accessory line, there's some investigation there for sure. Thanks for the links!




2016 Dodge Durango RT - Whipple SC - Corsa Exhaust - 505AWHP
No, the 90 can not be swapped in place of the 70 without significant modification.

SHR is an option but I recommend Bill Shurr and Paramount Performance Products. I've got a Paramount in my Charger and it's doing me quite well so far. My converter could use re-flashed but that's only because I'm using a converter built for one car in a different car. With that said, the shifts are firm but still smooth. I'm happy with the product and Bill's support.

Even without a tune for the 8HP70, an upgraded transmission has greater holding capacity and firmer shifts which will go a long way towards both daily-drivability AND racing....if that's your thing....but why wouldn't it be. ;)
 

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No, the 90 can not be swapped in place of the 70 without significant modification.

SHR is an option but I recommend Bill Shurr and Paramount Performance Products. I've got a Paramount in my Charger and it's doing me quite well so far. My converter could use re-flashed but that's only because I'm using a converter built for one car in a different car. With that said, the shifts are firm but still smooth. I'm happy with the product and Bill's support.

Even without a tune for the 8HP70, an upgraded transmission has greater holding capacity and firmer shifts which will go a long way towards both daily-drivability AND racing....if that's your thing....but why wouldn't it be. ;)
Okay cool. At least it has been looked into. Pretty cool if you can get a 8HP70 "built" and programmed to handle the increased torque load. What about the transfer case and the rest of the drive train?
 

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Bill told me that as long as the fluid is clean and changed on schedule, there's no reason (at my power level) to upgrade the t-case.

There's nothing for differentials. Lots of folks (me included) have wondered about swapping the Jeep diff into the Durango. My concern is without tuning you can expect limp mode when wheels start seeing and reporting different wheel speeds and ratios than stock.

Nobody makes driveshafts or axles yet but i bet Driveshaft Shop (DSS) will be getting into it eventually with the Durango SRT coming out.


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Very nice write-up and even nicer rig!
 

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I would *love * this thread if I could, but I could only *like* it.

I didn't see anything about the final cost in your post, do you mind sharing?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I would *love * this thread if I could, but I could only *like* it.

I didn't see anything about the final cost in your post, do you mind sharing?
I believe the Whipple kit was $7800, Corsa Exhaust was around $1400.

I paid $2k for install of everything above, AWD dyno time, custom tuning and a few misc parts like a Kevlar backed belt, thermostat, coolant, etc.

AWD RT was MSRPd @ 48970, I paid 45100.

So I think I'm into the truck $56300 give or take.
 

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^^ hows the corsa @ highway speeds? any drone?
 

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Corsa's claim to fame was developing a C5 Corvette exhaust that eliminated the drone - they seem to be the best at it.

I have had Borla systems on a couple other cars which had a really bad drone issue - so bad in one car that I had to install sound deadening material in the hatch area just to make it tolerable.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Update: we believe most of the pulley line issues I was seeing (alternator, water pump) were caused by a wobbly/bent input shaft on the Whipple, which caused it to not spin true. Whipple took care of the issue under warranty and back in action. Also redyno'd after the It was put back together and this time with the Corsa and looks to have picked up another 8awhp. I also had some fun with a buddy's brand new stock M4 out on the tarmac, 5 runs, 5 wins. At 100mph the Durango was a car length ahead every time. Pretty good for a SUV and also backs up the dyno and 1/4 mile numbers. Lots of fun and smiles! 1500 miles since the whipple repair and no issues.


2016 Dodge Durango RT - Whipple SC - Corsa Exhaust - 505AWHP
 

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I had to send my whipple in for warranty work as well. Are you talking about the pulley? I'm not completely technically versed.

My whipple had to have it's pulley replaced, and they rebuilt it as well - "just in case."
 
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