[Grease is the Word]

DTC (Dead Transmission Club), that is :shock: :evil: :furious:

This club membership is a little more expensive than the DBC.

108K miles, towed 4K lb boat occasionally its entire life. Towing the boat home two days ago I was stopped at a light at the bottom of a fairly steep hill. At the green light I kept the trans in 2nd to hold the revs up to about 3500. I shifted into D (with the overdrive off) and I heard a one second pop/clunk/miss from the tranny. I thought "that's weird" and went on with life.

This morning my wife got in the D to haul some bicycles and got about three miles from the house, went to start out at a light and no go. No gears -- no reverse, no forward! Drive shaft isn't turning so not a xfer case issue.

ATF+4 is up to level, recently changed (~5-10K ago), Mopar filter.

Attached is the FSM for the 46RE on a '98 regarding my condition.

I need to have it towed to my house and drop the pan. I'll check the pump, valve body, trans line check valve just for grins.

I talked to Dan A and he indicates the bands are just shot and I need a new tranny. That's the only good news out of this whole thing, I could get a MS tranny that'll last the life of the vehicle and be able to tow in OD and not worry about anything. Bad news is that after shipping & install, I'm looking at ~$2500. Dealer wants $3500 for a rebuilt DC trans installed with a 36 mo warranty. Obviously I'd do the former. Just have to find the cash.

Biggest disappointment -- this is boating season :wall:

 

[FSTDANGO3]

This is boating season but get her done and you'll never miss another boat season? at least not because of the D.
Steve
DOC Pres

 

[DurangoPaul]

"This morning my wife got in the D to haul some bicycles and got about three miles from the house, went to start out at a light and no go. No gears -- no reverse, no forward! Drive shaft isn't turning so not a xfer case issue."

Why does the drive shaft not turning eliminate the xfer case.

I had a similar problem at 98K, a pop, miss, stutter type noise, then three miles down the road nothing. It was the transfer case, the chain broke. When you'd put the transmission in gear, nothing, engine revs up, but bsically no other noise. After doing that, and putting it back in Park, I'd get the clicking noise like I was putting it in park while moving, that was my first clue it wasn't the transmission. If the drive chain in the xfer case broke, then the driveshafts won't move.

 

[butch1581]

That sucks man sorry to hear. Hopefully mine lasts a while longer, I got 115,000 on it and do quite a bit of towing. You got me worried now :shock:

 

[Grease is the Word]

Why does the drive shaft not turning eliminate the xfer case.

My reasoning (and I may have read it somewhere) is that, if both the driveshaft before and after the xfer case aren't turning, then the tranny isn't turning the front driveshaft, which means the tranny isn't turning/working.

I'm very interested in your response. I'd love for it to be something less expensive such as the xfer case, especially since you had the exact same symptoms.

 

[DelDurango]

I haven't been under my D in a while but, correct me if I'm wrong, the transmission and transfer are connected together, not divorced. So there wouldn't be a drive shaft from the transmission to the transfer outside the casing. :?

 

[VTengineer]

That's what I was thinking DelDurango. Goes straight from the tranny to the transfer case without any shafts as far as I knew.

 

[DurangoPaul]

Yes, the transfer case is bolted to the transmission, and although there's a shaft involved you can't see it unless you pull them apart. The front and rear driveshafts are connected to the transfer case. The only way to know for sure is to drop the transfer case (what a pain in the Durango.) The transfer case isn't that hard to rebuild, and shouldn't be extremely expensive to rebuild unless, if/when the chain broke, it messed up part of the case inside.

 

[FSTDANGO3]

WOW

I think you may want to make sure the transfer case hasn't failed. Is it possible the linkage to the transfer case broke and fell out of place causing the case to be in the Neutral position?
Steve
DOC Pres

 

[Grease is the Word]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

I've done some more reading. Yes, the xfer case is directly attached to the trans. The FSM says to jack up the rear, put it in 2HI and put it in gear, if the tires turn, it's the xfer case.

I'm going to try it. Attached is the blurb from the FSM.

 

[tomk]

I think that FSM blurb ignores the possibility of a transfer case problem. What it calls the "propeller shaft" is really the transmission output shaft - which isn't visible.

If something inside the xfer case is busted such that it's essentially in neutral, then none of the (visible) shafts are going to turn.

 

[DurangoPaul]

The propeller shaft it's referring to is the driveshaft. If you put it in 2HI and nothing moves, it can still be the transfer case. The output of the transmission is tied directly to the input of the tranfer case.

 

[FSTDANGO3]

Couldn't you jack up the vehicle and, leaving it in Park, spin the wheels. If the drive shaft turns completely, the transfer case is shot. If not, wouldn't that indicate an tranny problem?
Steve
DOC Pres

 

[Big Al]

To make it a bit more clear why a xfer case problem could effect driveshaft rotation, attached is a pix of the tranny/xfer case interface to the driveshafts.

As you can see, the xfer case sets "between" the tranny output shaft and both driveshafts so, if something in the xfer case broke such that it's stuck in Neutral (provided your xfer case is one with that setting) the output shaft from the rear of the tranny will be "internally" disconnected from both the drive shafts! If so, then placing it into 2HI (or any other setting for that matter) and checking for shaft rotation wouldn't necessarily "prove" the problems not in the xfer case instead of the tranny as DurangoPaul pointed out.

 

[Grease is the Word]

You guys are really helping me think this thing thru and I appreciate it greatly. I was up until 2am last night reading and doing tests.

This is what I did:

I jacked up the rear, put the xfer case in 2HI, started the engine, put it in drive (chocks on the front, with emergency brake off) and this is what I observed:

There was a little noise sometimes (maybe at the beginning) that wasn't metallic, more like a slight whine.

The rear wheels wouldn't always spin right away. If I gave it some gas, they'd spin fine. I braked, stopped the wheels and put it in reverse and the wheels went in reverse.

==========

So, the tires spin with no load, but not enough to move the vehicle. I'd think the xfer case is an all or nothing deal, which points me more towards the tranny, which I believe would have more of a slip symptom.

I'm going crazy.

:?

 

[DurangoPaul]

Sounds more like a torque converter or possibly the pump (torque converter not getting enough fluid return.) The torque converter is what transfers power from the engine to the transmission. It's basically a propeller -- impellar system. The engine side pushes the fluid towards the tranny side which turns the input shaft to the transmission. Since you're getting no load movement and don't hear a bunch of metallic racket, I'd say the Tcase is good as well as the hard parts in the tranny (gears and such.)

 

[Grease is the Word]

Sounds more like a torque converter or possibly the pump (torque converter not getting enough fluid return.) The torque converter is what transfers power from the engine to the transmission. It's basically a propeller -- impellar system. The engine side pushes the fluid towards the tranny side which turns the input shaft to the transmission. Since you're getting no load movement and don't hear a bunch of metallic racket, I'd say the Tcase is good as well as the hard parts in the tranny (gears and such.)

A local shop picked it up and initial observation is that it could be the pump. They were able to drive it onto the flat bed tow truck so their thought is, when the fluid gets hot and doesn't flow well because of the pump issue, it doesn't move the vehicle. Unfortunately, they'll have to pull the tranny to get at the pump in the front of it.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[tomk]

There are several pressure test ports on the outside of the tranny where they can easily test the pump without removing the transmission.

 

[Grease is the Word]

There are several pressure test ports on the outside of the tranny where they can easily test the pump without removing the transmission.

Thank you very much for that reminder. I remember reading that but forgot. That'll help if he comes back and says he needs to pull it to see if it's bad.

<u>Update 06/23/06</u>
I've been talking to Dan regarding a MS tranny and, while I'd love to go that route, the timing isn't going to work out. The price is very reasonable, especially for what you're getting. I wish I could have gone the Dan/MS route. Dan was extremely patient to deal with and I feel bad I couldn't go with it at this time.

After two and a half days at the local shop, all they did was read the codes and drop the pan. This was after they wanted me to rush it to them that day. They said it'd be $2000 to fix it and I didn't trust them so I told him I wanted it back by the end of today!

I called many DC dealers and everyone wants $3500 for the 46RE (factory rebuilt) installed with a 3/36 DC warranty. I found one that'll do it for $2700 and had it towed there tonight. I should be back on the road in a week from today as it'll take 2-3 days to get the tranny in house and another day or two to install it.

<u>Update 06/26/06</u>
Dodge dealer looked at tranny and ordered one today. Supposed to be coming from Detroit. Xfer case front seal is bad, so they're replacing it at the same time.

Other things they're doing while it's there:<ul>[*]programming all my fobssetting locks to lock at 15mph[*]setting lock and unlock with fob to flash lights (or sound horn)[*]programming eBay replacement CAB to 3.92[*]Don't flash PCM with timing/fuel change :naughty:[/list]<u>Update 06/29/06</u>
Tech pulled the old tranny and tried to blow out the lines but the one going to the cooler wouldn't budge even appling 100psi to it. It could be from failure debris or it's been plugged for a while.

They'll continue working tomorrow.

Question: I have the tow pkg. Are there two tranny coolers? One inbetween the condenser and radiator and another somewhere else? Or is the one between condenser and radiator bigger for tow pkg?

 

[Silver Ghost]

Just the one tranny cooler.

Joe