I have not, we have a valet mode that limits the power.

 

Thanks. Yeah, the Valet mode in the Hellcats is set to reduce performance down to around 40% while the black key would reduce it to around 75%.

Here's the Valet mode torque multiplier table from the 2021 Durango Hellcat:

Once I have the supercharger installed, my thought was to use the black key for reduce performance driving (maybe 50% or so) and then configure the Valet torque multiplier table to be 0%, or 1% ... and use it as an immobilizer. Just for additional protection against theft if someone tries to program their own key and steal it. The vehicle would start, but being in valet mode with 0% torque multiplier, wouldn't allow any throttle input until the valet code was entered

I went ahead and ordered a 2023 Durango Hellcat key for $118, and am going to experiment with it. I'll try setting the black key to 10% and see if the Red key overrides it.

Hopefully it works just like the Chargers/Challengers, and if so, will be perfect for my situation.

 

There was supposed to be a dealer installed security tool that limited the vehicle to just off idle power, needing a programable code to deactivate...afaik it did not happen for the Durango. With your ability to monitor pcm functions and be able to tune/program performance parameters you guys who have the skill can customize alot.

 

From what I can tell the numbers displayed in the Uconnect screen don’t match up with the horsepower numbers displayed in the tune file. You can change the horsepower numbers with HP tuners, but I don’t think HP tuners has made it work with the Durango operating systems, yet. I don’t know if I’m aloud to add an external forum link here, if not I apologize and I can delete it, but this is on the HP tuners forum.

Demon/Redeye/Trackhawk - Power Mode Values Added to VCMeditor.

If anyone one is interested we requested support to add the ability to change the values that display on the center stack for the Red Key, Black Key and HO modes. Not that it actually does much but we have had customer requests for this feature and Support came through! Now you can let folks...

forum.hptuners.com

 

Do Durango Hellcats even display a HP number in the uConnect? I'm not sure they display the "Red Key Connected" message either.

I now have an OEM red key, and had the RFH programmed on Saturday. I have red key enabled in the BCM as well. It works to start/drive, but nothing different shows up in the uConnect when it's being used. Maybe this is because the Durango Hellcats only come with red keys, so the identifier doesn't show in the uConnect?

I also swapped my PCM yesterday for the unlocked one I've had waiting. I pulled the calibrations with HPT, and have made some adjustments to try and get Launch working, as well as to limit the black key torque.

My daughter's driving test is today though, and she's going to use moms car to do it; So I am going to wait until afterward to flash the changes, just in case something weird happens.

I'll set the black key multiplier to something like 0.01 (for 1%) and then test with both black and red keys. If the red key functionality is working, the vehicle should barely move with the black but drive normally with the red.

 

Do Durango Hellcats even display a HP number in the uConnect? I'm not sure they display the "Red Key Connected" message either.

I now have an OEM red key, and had the RFH programmed on Saturday. I have red key enabled in the BCM as well. It works to start/drive, but nothing different shows up in the uConnect when it's being used. Maybe this is because the Durango Hellcats only come with red keys, so the identifier doesn't show in the uConnect?

I also swapped my PCM yesterday for the unlocked one I've had waiting. I pulled the calibrations with HPT, and have made some adjustments to try and get Launch working, as well as to limit the black key torque.

My daughter's driving test is today though, and she's going to use moms car to do it; So I am going to wait until afterward to flash the changes, just in case something weird happens.

I'll set the black key multiplier to something like 0.01 (for 1%) and then test with both black and red keys. If the red key functionality is working, the vehicle should barely move with the black but drive normally with the red.

Please write a technical document(s) on what you are doing. Fascinating!

 

So I tested the Black Key and Valet Mode multipliers yesterday.

I set Black Key to 0.10 across all entries in the table and went for a test drive using a black key. IT didn't seem to do much, if anything. Maybe it impacted initial throttle input? But I don't think so. I did a very sloppy 0-60 run on a road with elevation change and turns ... it was 6.9 seconds. So I don't think it made any difference.

I set Valet mode to all 0.00, then entered valet mode, and tried driving. No problem driving ... it felt normal. Of course, all of the drive modes and other various features were locked out, but the throttle felt pretty normal. Again, maybe less sensitivity at initial throttle input, but hard to tell.

So there must be something else going on here. @PatentlyPhil mentioned to me he thought the black key reduced performance in the Hellcats was working off the concept of limiting the HC supercharger's bypass valve, which is electronically driven in a Hellcat. If that's the case, then I can see why it would have no impact for my R/T ... and also, how it wouldn't do anything after the Whipple is installed either.

I wonder if it's possible to integrate an OEM HC bypass valve into the setup and leverage the OEM programming in the ECU to control it?

 

So now I'm contemplating a Smooth Boost controller for the Whipple. Not only does it provide more linear boost control but also provides options for tighter integration.

It is essentially an electronic bypass control which replaces the vacuum control Whipple provides. The Smooth Boost leverages throttle position to control the bypass valve instead of manifold vacuum like the stock bypass uses.

But ... the Smooth Boost also has an option for interfacing to an external signal for controlling it as well. And .. it has a wire specifically for cutting all boost, when this wire is connected to a ground source.

So .. maybe there is a way I can have the custom processor I built and connected to the IHS canbus (for interfacing the TnG drive mode panel with the SRT screens) detect when a black key is in use and flip a relay to ground the wire of the Smooth Boost, to effectively disable boost from building.

Or ... maybe the ECU already has a signal I can leverage for this ... need to dig into how the HC's control the OEM electronic bypass valve I guess....

 

Try setting valet to .05, sometimes all zeros aren’t interpreted the way you’d think in ECMs

 

I can try that and see ... I'm looking at the table name and it is "WOT Pedal Torque Multiplier", so I wonder if it's only taken into consideration when using WOT, or when fuel enrichment mode is active?

 

I haven’t drove my Durango in Valet yet, I haven’t drove it since before the end of the year. But in the TRX it affects it from idle up, it doesn’t even have half the power and the throttle response is very slow.

 

Have you called Whipple and asked them if the Hellcat OEM bypass is an option? They make a Gen 5 blower for the HC that uses the electronic bypass. It looks like it's just the upper hat that's different for the HC version vs. the non-HC version.

Dodge Durango Hellcat 6.2L Gen 6 3.0L Stage 1 SC Kit 2021-2025

Whipple Superchargers Dodge Durango and Jeep Trackhawk 50-state legal 3.0L twin-screw supercharger system upgrade.

whipplesuperchargers.com

 

I haven’t drove my Durango in Valet yet, I haven’t drove it since before the end of the year. But in the TRX it affects it from idle up, it doesn’t even have half the power and the throttle response is very slow.

Right, but the TRX has a factory supercharger with an electric bypass valve, right?

Have you called Whipple and asked them if the Hellcat OEM bypass is an option? They make a Gen 5 blower for the HC that uses the electronic bypass. It looks like it's just the upper hat that's different for the HC version vs. the non-HC version.

Dodge Durango Hellcat 6.2L Gen 6 3.0L Stage 1 SC Kit 2021-2025

Whipple Superchargers Dodge Durango and Jeep Trackhawk 50-state legal 3.0L twin-screw supercharger system upgrade.

whipplesuperchargers.com

I haven't called Whipple yet, but just got off the phone with a guy named Levon (Leave-On) at Smooth Boost. He was a VERY knowledgeable guy. I think he is the guy who initially developed the product actually. He was able to discuss everything from Arduino programming, to PWM scaling for 0-5v signals, Hellcat integration, the Durango R/T PCM limitations, etc, etc ... His wife drives a 2014 Durango R/T actually.

He said the issue with trying to leverage the Hellcat approach in my R/T lies in the fact the PCM is missing the 2nd H-Bridge which is used to drive the OEM bypass in the Hellcats. Essentially, the OEM bypass is just a small throttle-body, so the Hellcat PCMs have two H-Bridges in them ... one for the normal throttle-body and a second dedicated for the bypass. My PCM has the code in the software to control the bypass, but is missing the 2nd H-Bridge in the hardware ... so I can't just tap a pin on the PCM connector to get a signal.

I did discuss my idea of having my processor listen for black/red key "in use" messages on the IHS canbus, and using that to trigger the grounding of the blue wire of his setup (grounding the blue wire causes the bypass valve to stay open) and he said that's a great idea and would work well. Then he told me about Kaizen Speed, who is working on something similar to what I'm describing except with a lot more capabilities. He said their solution is something like an Arduino driven product, where they'll even open the code up to customers who want to customize it for themselves. I'm going to contact them later today to see if they already have a packaged solution.

Writing code and functionality into a micro controller isn't all that difficult to do ... but making the final product survive in a car environment for years or decades to come, is pretty challenging. If they have a packaged solution which allows a customer to add their own code, this may be a perfect fit for both my "drive modes" project as well as black key and boost control.

 

To get Red Key and Valet to work you might have to enable ECM Drive Mode Sub-Feature Configuration

 

Yeah, maybe so. When I enable on mine I get ACC/ABS errors, although @F8HEMI has been able to enable it on his TnG without error.

Did you enable ECM Drive Mode Sub-Feature on yours without error? Might be a year/model difference.

 

So I just tried enabling ECM Drive Mode Sub-Feature config again, and I misremembered as I don't get ABS and ACC errors ... I get an FCW error. Trying to re-enable FCW in the radio menu states it needs to be serviced and is disabled.

Maybe F8HEMI doesn't have forward collision warning system equipped on his vehicle, and therefore would explain why he didn't get the error.

I then tried doing an ABS recalibration, which one step is to clear ABS DTCs ... but that didn't clear the FCW error.

The more I think about it though, I kind of like the idea of interfacing a Smooth Boost controller with my custom setup, as I could trigger boost level and ramp curve off of canbus messaging.

So Black key = no boost, red key = boost ... but also ...

ECO Mode = slow boost curve starting late in the throttle
Auto Mode = slow boost curve starting mid throttle
Sport Mode = Mild boost curve starting mid throttle
Track mode = aggressive boost curve starting with early throttle

etc ...

The Smooth Boost setup not only has the blue wire for disabling boost, but it also has a Tan wire (scramble mode) for holding the bypass valve closed, and also has a port for connecting a potentiometer to set the max amount of boost allowed.

These inputs would be very easy to integrate into my setup which is reading data off the IHS bus. I'm already tracking drive mode and ECO state anyway, just need to find the message for black or red key, and then setup a few pins to output a signal for the Smooth Boost controller.

 

No, the best I’ve got when enabling ECM Drive modes Sub-Feature and disabling Super Trac Pack so it matches a 392 Durango is the codes I’ve attached, which only disables FCW. I have a feeling a trip to the dealership is needed. The operating system in the Engine ECM is different in a TnG and a 392, and I’m guessing the operating system in the trans is also different between a TnG and a 392. Something is causing Sport to not show up in the ICP even though it enters Sport mode and I’m guessing it has to do with what changes in the engine ECM when entering sport mode.
Also on the TRX Valet mode is so slow and unresponsive that it’s not just the supercharger bypass, it’s a complete dog, half as responsive as the Durango. It’s more than just the bypass, it pulls everything back.

 

Yeah, the EVIC Sport Splash + Sport Icon (Custom Splash + Icon as well) are the last things I am working on for full integration between the TnG panel and the SRT drive mode screens. I've got everything else working (Sport button LED, return to Auto by 2nd push, ECO LED logic, etc ...) I even repurposed the ECO button to act as the SRT button instead. All of this is perfect now, just need to solve the Sport splash piece.

I'm thinking maybe it's the cluster itself though. SRT vehicle sport mode is sending different messaging than a non-SRT Sport mode vehicle does. And when I send the same messaging out on the bus, the EVIC doesn't react with the splash. Considering the EVIC also doesn't display the SRT menu item or the SRT boot-up logo .... I'm thinking maybe the EVIC itself is the roadblock.

Sport mode is definitely different than the other modes in how it's handled ... in several ways. It became obvious to me when I started analyzing the canbus messaging, and what IDs are being used to trigger different things.

What I'm looking at now is capturing the individual messages which get sent to the EVIC screen, and attempting to recreate them in my code. But I've a feeling the splash itself is loaded into the EVIC and triggered to display based on the SRT Sport message it receives, but since the EVIC doesn't have the SRT-Sport image/code loaded, it gets ignored. Then if I try to trigger the non-SRT sport splash when "Vehicle is an SRT" is set to Yes, I'll bet the BCM isn't passing this message to the EVIC.

One thing I've discovered is the BCM blocks or passes certain messages based on "Vehicle is an SRT" setting.

On my list of things to try is to intercept the EVIC's canbus wire at the hub, and send the messages to it directly instead of relying on the BCM to send them. just need to find enough dedicated time to mess with it. If I can get that to work, then I can leverage the 3rd canbus port on my Teensy microprocessor, and intercept the SRT-Sport messages, translate them to the non-SRT-Sport messages, and forward direct to the EVIC without needing the BCM to do it.

 

Right, but the TRX has a factory supercharger with an electric bypass valve, right?

Yes - All of the Hellcat engines (lame they don't have a cool engine name like Apache or Eagle) use electric bypass valves. Most OE positive displacement blowers do, in fact.

I haven't called Whipple yet, but just got off the phone with a guy named Levon (Leave-On) at Smooth Boost. He was a VERY knowledgeable guy. I think he is the guy who initially developed the product actually. He was able to discuss everything from Arduino programming, to PWM scaling for 0-5v signals, Hellcat integration, the Durango R/T PCM limitations, etc, etc ... His wife drives a 2014 Durango R/T actually.

He said the issue with trying to leverage the Hellcat approach in my R/T lies in the fact the PCM is missing the 2nd H-Bridge which is used to drive the OEM bypass in the Hellcats. Essentially, the OEM bypass is just a small throttle-body, so the Hellcat PCMs have two H-Bridges in them ... one for the normal throttle-body and a second dedicated for the bypass. My PCM has the code in the software to control the bypass, but is missing the 2nd H-Bridge in the hardware ... so I can't just tap a pin on the PCM connector to get a signal.

I did discuss my idea of having my processor listen for black/red key "in use" messages on the IHS canbus, and using that to trigger the grounding of the blue wire of his setup (grounding the blue wire causes the bypass valve to stay open) and he said that's a great idea and would work well. Then he told me about Kaizen Speed, who is working on something similar to what I'm describing except with a lot more capabilities. He said their solution is something like an Arduino driven product, where they'll even open the code up to customers who want to customize it for themselves. I'm going to contact them later today to see if they already have a packaged solution.

Writing code and functionality into a micro controller isn't all that difficult to do ... but making the final product survive in a car environment for years or decades to come, is pretty challenging. If they have a packaged solution which allows a customer to add their own code, this may be a perfect fit for both my "drive modes" project as well as black key and boost control.

I've been thinking about this some, and had a thought. Lots of modern OEM Turbo cars come with electronic wastegate actuators (eIWG actuators). A popular one is the MHI FK-8 (OEM on the Civic Type R).

Honda FK8 Civic Type R OEM Electronic Wastegate Actuator

BRAND NEW GENUINE MITSUBISHI TURBOCHARGER ELECTRIC ACTUATOR – HONDA OEM *NOTE: This product is currently backordered. Shipping is expected to resume in early August.*

www.full-race.com

Controlling it is relatively simple and almost definitely something that Smoothboost could build for you (or you could DIY either with an Arduino or with a DCCDPro controller like Full-Race has). Sounds like Kaizen Speed may also have an option as well.

Electronic Internal Wastegate Controller by DCCDpro

The Full-Race EWG-Pro by DCCDpro is a dedicated Electronic Internal Wastegate controller for use with Full-Race eIWG Electronic Boost Control Conversion Kits or MHI / Melco Actuators. The fully programmable interface supports 5%-95% Duty Cycles for superior boost control.

www.full-race.com

Alternately, you could probably see if Whipple will swap your lid with the Hellcat lid, use an OEM actuator, and then something like that Full-Race eIWG controller to integrate it with your tune.

 

Good thoughts @PatentlyPhil , thanks!

Alternately, you could probably see if Whipple will swap your lid with the Hellcat lid, use an OEM actuator, and then something like that Full-Race eIWG controller to integrate it with your tune.

Do you know what signal the Full-Race controller taps into?

With the SmoothBoost, it taps into the throttle position as the primary controlling signal, then you can augment the control using the other available inputs. I kind of like this approach as I wouldn't need anything special in the tune to control it, and I could then customize it with the 3 external inputs.

1. Blue wire for boost defeat
2. Gray wire for 100% full boost
3. Dedicated input for defining max allowed boost

So for the PCM tuning, just the throttle position needs to be accounted for ... and then after it's running well ... I hook up the other circuits to customize it based on red/black key as well as drive mode selection.

The Kaizen control module is definitely cool ... the short video on this page demonstrates some of its functionality:

Control Module

If the control module had two canbus connections, I could fully replace what I've built thus far with this module and load my own code. Still haven't called them yet to see if they have plans to release a dual canbus control module, or if you can link multiple control modules together.

But if I wanted to have something dedicated just for boost control, their single canbus module would do it. Tap it into the IHS bus and listen for trigger messages. I already know the messages for drive mode selection, but still need to find the red/black key message ... although I do have a list of a few IDs where I think I can find it.

Then I connect the blue wire and potentiometer leads to the controller and write the code accordingly. I think I would probably leave the gray wire out, as I wouldn't want to risk an electronics failure which could cause the bypass to stick closed.

 

According to their documentation, it's a simple PWM input.

Full-Race's ELECTRONIC WASTEGATE CONTROLLER OVERVIEW

FULL-RACE ELECTRONIC INTERNAL WASTEGATE CONTROLLER BY DCCDPRO (USER GUIDE)

www.full-race.com

Thinking about this a little more... we may be over thinking things. There's no reason you couldn't just run an electronic boost controller and solenoid in-line with the vacuum actuator.

 

Thinking about this a little more... we may be over thinking things. There's no reason you couldn't just run an electronic boost controller and solenoid in-line with the vacuum actuator.

Sorry, I missed this ... the stock setup in the Whipple uses a manifold vacuum line to control the vacuum actuator. It's all mechanical, which is why it's not so smooth and more of a light switch operation.

 

Yeah, that's pretty typical ... but where to get the PWM signal from the vehicle?

I'd think I would have to take a 0-5v signal (like the throttle position) and run it through a module to generate a suitable PWM signal from it, then feed it to the Full-Race device. Maybe not though ... I'll read through their docs.

The Hellcat has an extra H-bridge in the engine PCM which drives the OEM bypass, but the R/T PCM is missing this extra H-bridge.

 

Don’t 392 Durangos have Valet mode? If so they are limited without a supercharger bypass.

 

Even the R/T has valet mode, but it doesn't reduce engine power. My guess is it does the same thing on the 392 and only the 6.2SC has any engine power reduction.

 

Valet mode on my Durango doesn’t lock out first gear, so either “ECM Drive Mode Sub Feature” needs to be enabled, and/or the transmission OS is completely different in ours compared to the SRT and HC.

 

What tells the vehicle which key is being used? If I remember right it’s not the push button ignition switch. I wonder if the Hellcat “module”, or whatever picks up the keys, is different than ours? Have you done any logging to see if your Durango is picking up that it is a red key?

 

I have, yes. See attached file ... just remove the ".pdf" from the end. I took logs with all 4 keys. These are just "Key On Engine Off" logs.

I started to hone in on what I thought might be the indicator, but stopped to focus on the tuning issues.

Here is the last note I made to myself on this ... I started to test it, but think I ended up finding out something which made this incorrect ... but don't remember the details now

The tuning issues I'm having are related to the TnG operating system BTW. It's different than an R/T or an SRT and HP Tuners handles things incorrectly in the backend. Add the fact Whipple provides a 3-bar MAP sensor with incorrect characterization data in their canned tuned, results in a very unpredictable MAP signal and tail-chasing fueling problem. And no one seems to have the correct data for the sensor. Or .. if it is correct, the way the OS handles it is different than expected.

I'm working with a guy who knows the backend of this stuff, and he has contacts at Chrysler and HPT as well, to try and get an OS patch to resolve things. This is the top priority right now.

 

Could you use a Hellcat map sensor? The data in the Hellcat vehicle tunes should be readily available.

 

I thought you worked out all the bugs with S/C install? You are having other issues???

 

The tune works, but isn't right. I was having to reset adaptives every couple of days to resolve cold start, idle, and off-idle response issues. So I engaged another tuner to do a retune with the neural network enabled, and he's the one who figured out what is really going on behind the scenes. He started making similar comments that Alex was making (ie: It's not responding the way it should, fueling isn't keeping up, ...). I even had my original PCM unlocked and switched away from my donor PCM, thinking maybe the donor PCM was the root cause ... but it didn't make a difference.

It's an issue specific to the TnG operating system as well as the 3-bar Mopar MAP sensor Whipple provides with the kit. This explains why the 1st tuner (Alex) struggled with it for so long when doing the VE tune. The MAP readings are not right. One side effect is the fueling is slow to respond. So Alex fudged the air flow model to mitigate against it. This causes weird behaviors at times and poor fuel mileage. The worst part about it is the intermittent hesitation when coming off a stop. It can get pretty scary when you expect to pull out into traffic and it hesitates to move when expected.

I'm pretty confident the new tuner can get the root cause resolved through his contacts though. I actually have a beta OS patch to test out later today to see if one of the suggested approaches will work.

 

Ok I had no idea. Thought everything was good to go. Maybe fuel pump is not up to the flow requirements of the S/C?

I suggest you let Whipple know, since you purchased a complete kit which is supposed to be turn key ready. They should use this info to correct the issues on future kits.

 

I am using the Hellcat 3-bar MAP sensor. Mopar Part Number: 53010887AA. Whipple includes this in their kit. They used to include the 2.25 bar sensor but changed .. maybe with the Gen 5?

At some point, Mopar also switched from the 2.25 bar MAP to the 3 bar MAP, not sure when they made the switch. But all stock newer Hellcat tune files show the characterization data for this 3 bar MAP sensor as such:

• Slope: 61.05 kPa
• kPa offset: 7.00 kPa
• Voltage offset: 0.1001v

When the above settings are used with a non-Hellcat, the MAP does not read atmospheric baro with key on engine off.

If I understand the issue, it's related to the fact this sensor has a non-linear response, and also has internal calibration to adjust for temp ... but there is no way to account for the transfer function in the tune without switching the "Supercharger Equipped" flag to "Yes" and then populating the fields on that tab. If you do this on a non-Hellcat motor, you get a bunch of errors due to the missing electronic bypass control and the other TMAP sensors not being there either. I'd guess you'd experience other challenges with this set to yes as well?

The beta OS patch I'm going to try later today is meant to try and allow for the MAP fields in the Supercharger tab to be used for MAP readings, without having to flip the Supercharger Equipped flag to yes.

As it stands right now, with Key On, Engine Off ... the MAP Sensor, MAP Sensed, Calculated MAP, and Baro will not all align to actual atmospheric barometric pressure. MAP Sensor always reads higher than the others. We've tried many different approaches, and the fueling issue always just moves to another location.

I did order the older 2.25 bar MAP a couple of weeks ago (part number: 68207074AB), as we thought the greater resolution of the 2.25 sensor would allow a better workaround for the OS, and this sensor seems to be easier to work with based on how HP Tuners approaches this OS ... but the sensor is on back order. It is is supposed to ship today, but we'll see.

That said, if a customized OS patch can be used to make this 3-bar sensor work with the TnG operating system, that would be ideal. If it does work, HP Tuners could update their template for Whipple, and future customers wouldn't have to go through this.

 

If that doesn’t work I’m pretty sure the SRT4 map sensor is a 2.25, might be an option.