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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2015 RT that I have repaired after an accident. Had to put a new condenser in it so I need to completely recharge the AC system. I've found that near me only the dealers are recharging r1234yf systems, and the price is ridiculous - like over 5 times higher than a 134 system. After doing some research I have discovered that r1234yf is not nearly as efficient as r134a and can even leak out of the system if it experiences long periods of cold weather. In other words, it's just more overpriced EPA garbage. I also discovered that it seems that you can run r134a in the new systems. Most shops won't do it because they would be breaking some environmental regulations, but there is nothing stopping a DIYer from doing it. Wondering if anyone has done this. I know I have seen posts previously with people's systems not cooling well anymore - likely due to the leaking systems - so I figured that someone out there may have experience with this conversion. As far as the system itself is concerned, it looks like everything is the same with the exception of the addition of a heat exchanger and a more stout condenser.
 

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A fair amount of misinformation there I think..

The cold-weather loss of refrigerant is a non-issue; the fitting caps are designed to prevent that.

The fittings are different, so you'll at least have to use adapters. The next person to work on the system may be surprised.

"r1234yf is not nearly as efficient as r134a" is apparently not true, at least from a quick read of a few industry papers just now. If you were to put R1234yf in a system designed for R134a, it looks like you'd end up with about a 10% loss of cooling capacity, but putting R134a into a R1234yf system would be a wash.

It appears R1234yf oil is compatible with R134a (but not vice-versa), so shouldn't be a problem there.

I don't think you can charge by weight using the same numbers for R134a, you'll have to play the superheat/subcool/pressure game. Not sure about this, don't have time to research.

Expansion valve calibration won't be quite right for R134a, but should be acceptable.

third-party shops are going to have to eventually deal with R1234yf; because very few cars come with R134a anymore. Collision industry rags seem to say that bodyshops were already buying R1234yf gear in 2015, so it should be getting pretty common..

Just my $0.02, and I know I didn't answer the question you asked ;)
 

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Sorry you feel the way you do @ the EPA. They are there to protect us from ourselves. I realize it is cheaper to use the R134 but do it right.
 

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Sorry you feel the way you do @ the EPA. They are there to protect us from ourselves. I realize it is cheaper to use the R134 but do it right.
It is slightly flammable from what I've read...

Otherwise, yeah it's expensive. It's new and what they are producing is going into new cars. They switched because r134a is a greenhouse gas that's way worse than c02 (I'll keep my r134a though!).

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Sorry you feel the way you do @ the EPA. They are there to protect us from ourselves. I realize it is cheaper to use the R134 but do it right.
You're new around this here Internet, aint'cha pardner?

;)
 
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Unfortunately I've been around long enough to see the good that the EPA has done for us. We wouldn't have the HP out of these engines that we do without the EPA driving the manufacturers into computers and stricter controls. The air is better even though we have a ton more vehicles on the road than before the rules got put into place. I am just a supporter of them, but I know there are a lot of folks that aren't. That's their choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
A fair amount of misinformation there I think..

The cold-weather loss of refrigerant is a non-issue; the fitting caps are designed to prevent that.

The fittings are different, so you'll at least have to use adapters. The next person to work on the system may be surprised.

"r1234yf is not nearly as efficient as r134a" is apparently not true, at least from a quick read of a few industry papers just now. If you were to put R1234yf in a system designed for R134a, it looks like you'd end up with about a 10% loss of cooling capacity, but putting R134a into a R1234yf system would be a wash.

It appears R1234yf oil is compatible with R134a (but not vice-versa), so shouldn't be a problem there.

I don't think you can charge by weight using the same numbers for R134a, you'll have to play the superheat/subcool/pressure game. Not sure about this, don't have time to research.

Expansion valve calibration won't be quite right for R134a, but should be acceptable.

third-party shops are going to have to eventually deal with R1234yf; because very few cars come with R134a anymore. Collision industry rags seem to say that bodyshops were already buying R1234yf gear in 2015, so it should be getting pretty common..

Just my $0.02, and I know I didn't answer the question you asked
Appreciate the info and insight. All things I have read say it is not as efficient, hence the addition of the heat exchanger to try and make up for some of the loss in efficiency.
The reason I'm hearing small shops aren't on board yet is because if the high cost of the new equipment they need and the high cost of the refrigerant - upwards of $68/lb relative to the number of vehicles they see that need AC repairs. Makes sense since it is mostly in cars 2014 and up that have 1234 and vehicles that new aren't going to typically require much AC work. I read an article from a few yrs ago that states that there should be DIY cans out for parts stores by now, but they are nowhere near that yet.
Good to hear what seems to be a confirmation that I should be able to go with 134a in the system. I believe that's what I'm going to do.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Unfortunately I've been around long enough to see the good that the EPA has done for us. We wouldn't have the HP out of these engines that we do without the EPA driving the manufacturers into computers and stricter controls. The air is better even though we have a ton more vehicles on the road than before the rules got put into place. I am just a supporter of them, but I know there are a lot of folks that aren't. That's their choice.
You're insane. I have a 292k mile 2001 Ram 2500 diesel with no emissions that gets 19+mpg and an 80k mile 2010 Ram 2500 diesel with all the emissions nonsense that gets 12mpg. You can't tell me that the truck burning that much more fuel to accomplish the same thing is better for the environment. That's just nonsensical. The EPA is a joke.
 

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You're insane. I have a 292k mile 2001 Ram 2500 diesel with no emissions that gets 19+mpg and an 80k mile 2010 Ram 2500 diesel with all the emissions nonsense that gets 12mpg. You can't tell me that the truck burning that much more fuel to accomplish the same thing is better for the environment. That's just nonsensical. The EPA is a joke.
Your co2 will be lower, but Nox will be through the roof.

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While some people disagree with EPA regulations, hopefully in the long term they are able to help protect the air, environment and human life in general.
I was a truck driver ( now retired ) but used to pick up at the DuPont chem plant in Pennsville NJ. A leak occurred in the Freon processing unit while one of our other drivers was inside. The area was evacuated, but our driver got a good dose of the gas. He never was able to return to work and had permanent lung damage, among other conditions.
Freon is dangerous stuff, to humans and the environment.

I'll take EPA protection all day long opposed to allowing corporate America to wantonly destruct our environment just for profit.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Charged my system up a few days ago with 134a and everything works wonderfully. Only had to buy new fittings for my gauge set to fit the 1234yf fittings and the rest was routine. Less than $70, including buying the new fittings. Cheapest 1234 price I got, just to fill and not including mandatory diagnostic charge, was $500. I'll take the $70 fill every time over the other crap. So screw you hippies! ?
 

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Hey! easy on us hippies! ;)
 

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1234yf is going to be expensive for awhile seeing as Honeywell and DuPont are the only companies that can manufacture it. Some car manufacturers are concerned about the product due to the fact it could turn to HF vapor if ignited
 

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Charged my system up a few days ago with 134a and everything works wonderfully. Only had to buy new fittings for my gauge set to fit the 1234yf fittings and the rest was routine. Less than $70, including buying the new fittings. Cheapest 1234 price I got, just to fill and not including mandatory diagnostic charge, was $500. I'll take the $70 fill every time over the other crap. So screw you hippies! ?
Hey man,

I don't have a dodge but I have a civic, and I got the new gas as well. I need to replace the condenser b/c Honda warranty does not cover since it got busted by rocks on the road or some other debris.

Anyway, how's your AC doing? Is it still working? My main concern for shooting R134 into the system is the compatibility with the oil.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Figured I’d post an update to this as I’ve gotten a few private messages asking how it’s worked. I’ve had literally zero issues since charging with r134. The system has worked great for almost 25k miles thus far.
 

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Just a fun side note on this topic: when people couldn't get r12 any longer and didn't want to pay to convert their systems to 134a, some geniuses and less scrupulous shops actually recharged their systems with propane... which did work well as an ac refrigerant, until something happened.
 

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A fair amount of misinformation there I think..

The cold-weather loss of refrigerant is a non-issue; the fitting caps are designed to prevent that.

The fittings are different, so you'll at least have to use adapters. The next person to work on the system may be surprised.

"r1234yf is not nearly as efficient as r134a" is apparently not true, at least from a quick read of a few industry papers just now. If you were to put R1234yf in a system designed for R134a, it looks like you'd end up with about a 10% loss of cooling capacity, but putting R134a into a R1234yf system would be a wash.

It appears R1234yf oil is compatible with R134a (but not vice-versa), so shouldn't be a problem there.

I don't think you can charge by weight using the same numbers for R134a, you'll have to play the superheat/subcool/pressure game. Not sure about this, don't have time to research.

Expansion valve calibration won't be quite right for R134a, but should be acceptable.

third-party shops are going to have to eventually deal with R1234yf; because very few cars come with R134a anymore. Collision industry rags seem to say that bodyshops were already buying R1234yf gear in 2015, so it should be getting pretty common..

Just my $0.02, and I know I didn't answer the question you asked ;)
Believe you are wrong see you tube
Don't Buy Cars that Use this New Type of Refrigerant in the AC System

also 134yf is flammable.
 

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I have a 2015 RT that I have repaired after an accident. Had to put a new condenser in it so I need to completely recharge the AC system. I've found that near me only the dealers are recharging r1234yf systems, and the price is ridiculous - like over 5 times higher than a 134 system. After doing some research I have discovered that r1234yf is not nearly as efficient as r134a and can even leak out of the system if it experiences long periods of cold weather. In other words, it's just more overpriced EPA garbage. I also discovered that it seems that you can run r134a in the new systems. Most shops won't do it because they would be breaking some environmental regulations, but there is nothing stopping a DIYer from doing it. Wondering if anyone has done this. I know I have seen posts previously with people's systems not cooling well anymore - likely due to the leaking systems - so I figured that someone out there may have experience with this conversion. As far as the system itself is concerned, it looks like everything is the same with the exception of the addition of a heat exchanger and a more stout condenser.
Don't Buy Cars that Use this New Type of Refrigerant in the AC System see this on you tube.
 
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