[randiandluis]

Love this thread. Thanks so much for the info.

I have a 2011 With the Alpine system. Currently all stock.

Subscribed to the Tidal HiFi service and it really sounds good. But.....

Would it be worth it to upgrade just the speakers? Maybe even just the Wavecor center speaker to start? Do you think I would hear a different with just that speaker change? Then later on, add the processor and amps.

I only ask, because this would be a progressive upgrade. If there would be no difference, then I would probably not do it at all.

Again, great thread!!

 

[Joc17RT]

You don't have to use two volume controls, or add any unnecessary headaches either. Both Lanson and myself have built SQ-oriented systems with an emphasis on accurate sound reproduction through more complex tuning. What are you exactly looking for in your upgrade? You mentioned retaining the rear entertainment system's functionality but what else? Do you need time alignment? If this about accurate sound reproduction or just an increase in the quality of your car's stereo?

Let me clarify what i want to achieve.

I definitely want to improve the overall sound quality and get more punch.

Its gotta sound great at all volume level, not perfect but great.

Time alignment, never did any but in this case I’d like to go for it if I have the chance since its a bigger vehicule and speakers are pretty distant.

What is important to me is that the system works like its oem and not loose any functionality since i will be using the rear entertainment system too.

I am used to have good midbass in doors and subs in the trunk.
I was running JL ZR800 before + a Stealthbox.

For now I followed Lanson build and got a set of X69, Wavecor center and Alpine tweeters.
Since there has been lots of dicussions about the Alpine tweeters ill get the GB10 if I aint happy.
Only getting what has been proven to work, no time for trials this time around..lol

With the Durango i want to improve the sub in the oem enclosure by adding a better shallow sub and maybe polyfill but that’s about it for now as I do not want to build a new box and rip the floor (for now)
This alone will require more power and deadening obviously.

For the front i am changing speakers for much better ones (mid, center and tweeters)
For the rear doors and pillars I do not know if I really need to swap speakers since it will be used for rear fill or movies/games.

I am planning on amplifying all channels for ease of configuration unless you or anybody else convince me its not a good idea.
Something like a Jl XD800/8v2. I already have a JL xD600/1 on hand and an Alpine pdr-v75
Since space is limited I might try to get all power from one amp or maybe two.

In the past without a dsp I used line drivers and line output converter. With the Durango going this way I feel I would loose on the opportunity to improve the sound and correct the EQ glitch being reported.

Reallly appreciate all your help on this guys!

 

[Lanson]

Love this thread. Thanks so much for the info.

I have a 2011 With the Alpine system. Currently all stock.

Subscribed to the Tidal HiFi service and it really sounds good. But.....

Would it be worth it to upgrade just the speakers? Maybe even just the Wavecor center speaker to start? Do you think I would hear a different with just that speaker change? Then later on, add the processor and amps.

I only ask, because this would be a progressive upgrade. If there would be no difference, then I would probably not do it at all.

Again, great thread!!

Hmm...well I'm not sure how it would turn out, but you could certainly try it. If you ordered a connector that matched, you could swap them back and forth. Or just cut and hope, like I did. Wavecor or Fountek would be what I'd consider good options. Also GR Research LGK1.0, not sure it would fit but I'd love to have time and try them all.

If you deaden the front doors heavily, and upgrade the speakers (like a component 6x9 set), I'm sure it would sound a little better. Hell, even just deadening and then putting it all back together would probably sound good.

 

[Lanson]

I like the use of an XD800/8 for sure. Or a pair of 400/4's, depending on price/availability. I used a 600/6 and a 200/2 in a Vette build I did, worked great. Amplifying all channels is very smart, and that's why I went through the trouble of powering up the D-pillars along with the rear doors, in a 2ch --> 4ch split setup.

Time alignment becomes really important with the surround setup I've gone with. The midbass drivers, sub, and center are the most vital to align properly. The idea is to anchor the front stage for both listeners up front. The factory does not use time alignment, and you might pick up this sensation of a lack of center stage, a feeling that you can hear each speaker individually instead of hearing a cohesive, complete "image" of sound placed near your dash area. To be fair, the extra resonances in the doors and in the back end actually ruin the image as much as lack of time alignment, but you get the idea...that we're basically trying to recreate a sound field. Your badass ZR800's would have LOVED some time alignment, considering midbass is the most vital point to align (by how our ears work with those types of frequencies, to localize a sound.) I've used the ZR800's in the Vette build I mentioned earlier, and with some tuning work I was able to get the bass to sound like it was at your feet but at the height of your chest. Heh, trickery.

Let me clarify what i want to achieve.

I definitely want to improve the overall sound quality and get more punch.

Its gotta sound great at all volume level, not perfect but great.

Time alignment, never did any but in this case I’d like to go for it if I have the chance since its a bigger vehicule and speakers are pretty distant.

What is important to me is that the system works like its oem and not loose any functionality since i will be using the rear entertainment system too.

I am used to have good midbass in doors and subs in the trunk.
I was running JL ZR800 before + a Stealthbox.

For now I followed Lanson build and got a set of X69, Wavecor center and Alpine tweeters.
Since there has been lots of dicussions about the Alpine tweeters ill get the GB10 if I aint happy.
Only getting what has been proven to work, no time for trials this time around..lol

With the Durango i want to improve the sub in the oem enclosure by adding a better shallow sub and maybe polyfill but that’s about it for now as I do not want to build a new box and rip the floor (for now)
This alone will require more power and deadening obviously.

For the front i am changing speakers for much better ones (mid, center and tweeters)
For the rear doors and pillars I do not know if I really need to swap speakers since it will be used for rear fill or movies/games.

I am planning on amplifying all channels for ease of configuration unless you or anybody else convince me its not a good idea.
Something like a Jl XD800/8v2. I already have a JL xD600/1 on hand and an Alpine pdr-v75
Since space is limited I might try to get all power from one amp or maybe two.

In the past without a dsp I used line drivers and line output converter. With the Durango going this way I feel I would loose on the opportunity to improve the sound and correct the EQ glitch being reported.

Reallly appreciate all your help on this guys!

 

[Joc17RT]

I like the use of an XD800/8 for sure. Or a pair of 400/4's, depending on price/availability. I used a 600/6 and a 200/2 in a Vette build I did, worked great. Amplifying all channels is very smart, and that's why I went through the trouble of powering up the D-pillars along with the rear doors, in a 2ch --> 4ch split setup.

Time alignment becomes really important with the surround setup I've gone with. The midbass drivers, sub, and center are the most vital to align properly. The idea is to anchor the front stage for both listeners up front. The factory does not use time alignment, and you might pick up this sensation of a lack of center stage, a feeling that you can hear each speaker individually instead of hearing a cohesive, complete "image" of sound placed near your dash area. To be fair, the extra resonances in the doors and in the back end actually ruin the image as much as lack of time alignment, but you get the idea...that we're basically trying to recreate a sound field. Your badass ZR800's would have LOVED some time alignment, considering midbass is the most vital point to align (by how our ears work with those types of frequencies, to localize a sound.) I've used the ZR800's in the Vette build I mentioned earlier, and with some tuning work I was able to get the bass to sound like it was at your feet but at the height of your chest. Heh, trickery.




Cant wait to get started and receive the truck
In the meantime i got a confirmation from AC that their new unit has 2 mono output that i could use to route the sub and center channel, 8 input and 10 outputs should do it.
Seems theyre unit doesnt have a master volume and uses the actual oem volume knob, thats a plus.

Do you know if rear doors and pillars are receiving the same signal ?
if i separate all signals i would need more than 8 channel of amplification...

Also about the X69, their sensitivity is 93db. Do you think 75w from the JL800 would be sufficient ?
Wondering since you sending way more that that..lol

 

[randiandluis]

Hmm...well I'm not sure how it would turn out, but you could certainly try it. If you ordered a connector that matched, you could swap them back and forth. Or just cut and hope, like I did. Wavecor or Fountek would be what I'd consider good options. Also GR Research LGK1.0, not sure it would fit but I'd love to have time and try them all.

If you deaden the front doors heavily, and upgrade the speakers (like a component 6x9 set), I'm sure it would sound a little better. Hell, even just deadening and then putting it all back together would probably sound good.

Makes sense. I may try deaden first. Then try speakers. And get before/after of every step. Also, after searching for the Wavecor speaker, it seems like only the 8ohm version is showing. Where do you find the 4ohm model? Seems to be sold out/unavailable everywhere.

 

[Joc17RT]

Makes sense. I may try deaden first. Then try speakers. And get before/after of every step. Also, after searching for the Wavecor speaker, it seems like only the 8ohm version is showing. Where do you find the 4ohm model? Seems to be sold out/unavailable everywhere.

Well i found it in Canada from Solen.ca. With the exchange rate you would probably do very well..
Mine is in the mail.
Btw i am from Canada but normally get all my stuff from the states where prices are much better.

 

[Lanson]

Makes sense. I may try deaden first. Then try speakers. And get before/after of every step. Also, after searching for the Wavecor speaker, it seems like only the 8ohm version is showing. Where do you find the 4ohm model? Seems to be sold out/unavailable everywhere.

Excellent idea. Get yourself a good calibrated mic (Umik-1 is what I use, from minidsp), and install REW, and you'll be able to properly document the results of your changes, and make more efficient adjustments.

This should do it
Wavecor WF090WA 01 Ferrite Mid Woofer Driver 4 Ohm | eBay

Bear in mind the 8 ohm would be OK too.

 

[Lanson]

Do you know if rear doors and pillars are receiving the same signal ?
The outputs come directly from each channel of the amp to each speaker, so they are different. I've re-routed this in my build.

if i separate all signals i would need more than 8 channel of amplification...
This is why I added in a 4th amp, a tiny little Power Acoustik 4 channel that runs the rear doors and D-pillars. The amp has basic crossovers on it, and the D-pillars are crossed higher. The MS-8 calibrated with both of these speakers playing at the same time, and adjusted their output and frequency response to work as one whole speaker, at least in simplistic rear surround form.


Also about the X69, their sensitivity is 93db. Do you think 75w from the JL800 would be sufficient ?
Id' absolutely recommend bridging if you can. They love power.


Wondering since you sending way more that that..lol
More is available to them when needed, but the doors resonate (even deadened) way before I reach the speaker's limits. These ID's are ridiculously powerful speakers.

My answers in bold

 

[Joc17RT]

My answers in bold

Thanks again for the clarifications.

So seems i need 12ch minimum but with me wanting to limit the amount of amps and the needed power for the sub and midbass ill have to bridge some so in reality ill need 13.
That leaves me with a XD800 and a XD700/5 if i want to stay with JL.
I already have XD600/1 + an Alpine PDR-F50 4x85. This could obviously replace the XD700 but this brings me back to the space issue.

How many amp can i fit in the small compartment under the rear deck ?
Couldnt get any measurement so far.

I remember seeing you or Mike showing an amp fitting under the rear seats..
Is this an option for me since ill be keeping the trunk intact ?

That power acoustik amp cant believe the ratings for the price, if you push it a bit and put the fader in the rear how are the rear doors and pillars speakers sounding. Are they any good with more power ?
Not planning to replace them so far unless they sound really bad with more power.

 

[randiandluis]

Any heat problems when you're putting multiple amps under that rear deck? Especially when keeping the stock lid?

 

[Joc17RT]

Thanks again for the clarifications.

So seems i need 12ch minimum but with me wanting to limit the amount of amps and the needed power for the sub and midbass ill have to bridge some so in reality ill need 13.
That leaves me with a XD800 and a XD700/5 if i want to stay with JL.
I already have XD600/1 + an Alpine PDR-F50 4x85. This could obviously replace the XD700 but this brings me back to the space issue.

How many amp can i fit in the small compartment under the rear deck ?
Couldnt get any measurement so far.

I remember seeing you or Mike showing an amp fitting under the rear seats..
Is this an option for me since ill be keeping the trunk intact ?

That power acoustik amp cant believe the ratings for the price, if you push it a bit and put the fader in the rear how are the rear doors and pillars speakers sounding. Are they any good with more power ?
Not planning to replace them so far unless they sound really bad with more power.

@Lanson and Mike

Just got the news my new RT is on truck heading my way so my list of questions will diminish as soon as i can take a look myself..lol

Regarding my last comments above about the space under the seats, i found Lanson pics but in the end seems nobody installed an amp in that location. All i saw was a distribution block and power wires.

Is there enough room with the trunk intact to actually place my 2 JL amps under the seats.
I still have the power to distribute too and will also have the AC dsp.

If not i guess i could use the hidden storage space under the rear deck lid, not sure if two amps fit in there though..

Thanks guys!

 

[Lanson]

Consider, there's tiny JL amps too. Those MX or HX things would be great for the "unimportant" channels. A 600/1 and a 800/8 with one of those minis should do it. bridge 4 channels for the midbass pair, a pair for the tweeters, bridge a pair for center (this is unnecessary, but you would be wasting a channel otherwise), run a mini JL for the rears and D-pillar, and then the sub amp.

The amps you want to use aren't small (well, the 800/8 is pretty long, anyway). I think they'll fit the cargo well area if you want. Just a matter of what you want to give up, space-wise.


Regarding my little Power Acoustik amp, yeah no doubt is over-rated. But I'm probably using it to 1/10th to 1/5th of its abilities, at its loudest. The rears are not being pushed at all in a surround field created by the MS-8. Just ambient sounds, things out of phase (like reverb sounds, background, etc) go to the rear, so they are barely even being used. I'd rather have a tiny JL like I was just mentioning, but the PA was cheap and I knew it would work.

Thanks again for the clarifications.

So seems i need 12ch minimum but with me wanting to limit the amount of amps and the needed power for the sub and midbass ill have to bridge some so in reality ill need 13.
That leaves me with a XD800 and a XD700/5 if i want to stay with JL.
I already have XD600/1 + an Alpine PDR-F50 4x85. This could obviously replace the XD700 but this brings me back to the space issue.

How many amp can i fit in the small compartment under the rear deck ?
Couldnt get any measurement so far.

I remember seeing you or Mike showing an amp fitting under the rear seats..
Is this an option for me since ill be keeping the trunk intact ?

That power acoustik amp cant believe the ratings for the price, if you push it a bit and put the fader in the rear how are the rear doors and pillars speakers sounding. Are they any good with more power ?
Not planning to replace them so far unless they sound really bad with more power.

 

[MoparMike]

See below for answers in bold.

@Lanson and Mike

Just got the news my new RT is on truck heading my way so my list of questions will diminish as soon as i can take a look myself..lol

Congrats on the new ride!

Regarding my last comments above about the space under the seats, i found Lanson pics but in the end seems nobody installed an amp in that location. All i saw was a distribution block and power wires.

Is there enough room with the trunk intact to actually place my 2 JL amps under the seats.
I still have the power to distribute too and will also have the AC dsp.

You won't know until you place the amps there and check for clearance. My concern for that spot was space when the seats were folded down and having enough space for cooling.

If not i guess i could use the hidden storage space under the rear deck lid, not sure if two amps fit in there though..

Again, here you will need to set amps in place and see for yourself. Good luck with your build and holler if you have questions.

Thanks guys!

 

[Lanson]

Any heat problems when you're putting multiple amps under that rear deck? Especially when keeping the stock lid?

Sorry, didn't see this question before. Yes, heat is a concern and I've been keeping an eye on it. However, nothing has overheated so far. I'm still rebuilding the system without the lid (after it cools down...weather is a problem at the moment but it will cool down soon.)

 

[Joc17RT]

Sorry, didn't see this question before. Yes, heat is a concern and I've been keeping an eye on it. However, nothing has overheated so far. I'm still rebuilding the system without the lid (after it cools down...weather is a problem at the moment but it will cool down soon.)

So again, it it fits under the rear seats it might be a better location since its always ventilated!
Not as cool looking but in the end its the sound that counts

 

[Lanson]

So again, it it fits under the rear seats it might be a better location since its always ventilated!
Not as cool looking but in the end its the sound that counts

Gotta go with TINY amps to fit that area. I tried (and failed) to stick the factory wheel jack in that compartment. Now there's a stack of Microfiber towels, some gloves, and that's it.

 

[Joc17RT]

Guys,

About the sound deadening material, how many sq feet did you need ?

I still have some Raam BXT and Ensolite but not sure i have enough.
Not planning on going crazy but use it where its really needed, seems the oem insulation is already pretty good.

 

[Lanson]

Guys,

About the sound deadening material, how many sq feet did you need ?

I still have some Raam BXT and Ensolite but not sure i have enough.
Not planning on going crazy but use it where its really needed, seems the oem insulation is already pretty good.

The OEM deadening in the doors was falling off when I got to it. There was a super-thin piece of material which looked like a kindergarten-grade version of my Knu Kolossus stuff. Same basic makeup, but playschool level grade. Needless to say, I'd disagree with you on the OEM being pretty good. Anyway, Just order a bulk pack at Knu Kno Knoise Kolossus Edition Car Kit 35sq ft - Merchandise and it should do the doors, the trunk area (underneath is where I went), and the back gate area. You can decide from there if more is needed. I need to get back in my doors and double my efforts, I can tell you that much.

If you need an alternative to Knu, go with www.sounddeadenershowdown.com and Don has probably the best product. I just save a little bit with Knu but it is pretty close, all-in.

 

[Joc17RT]

@Lanson
Time to revive this glorious thread
I have now received all my compoents except the processor (still waiting on the AC DM810 or maybe the Adison bit one HD but $$$)
I will have 13 channels of amplification provided by JL XD800 and JL XD700.
Received the Alpine tweeters (or a great copy) and they sure look good quality especially for the price.
Also got XS69 and Wavecor center.

I have a couple of questions I couldn't find a clear answer after having read the entire thread for the x time ..lol

Mine is a 17RT but suspect the wiring is the same.
Do you have a wiring diagrams you could share for the Alpine amplifier as well as for the various connectors ?
Couldn't find anything online so far.

Regarding the Alpine amplifier output, did you cut the wires and ran new wires everywhere from your amps or you used the oem wires from the back to get the newly amplified signals to the speakers ?
Some of your pics are showing the oem wires so am wondering.
It sure would make the job easier to only splice into the oem wires after the Alpine amp.

Did you find any signals not going trough the Alpine amp (rear warning tone, phone, nav)

Cant wait to start.