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5th to 4th, Hard Downshift

52K views 133 replies 40 participants last post by  spark 
#1 · (Edited)
Noticed yesterday when coming to a stop, the truck (2017 RT) would downshift hard and surge forward a bit. Watched the gear selection, and each time it was when going from 5th to 4th. Upshifts and the rest of the downshifts are smooth. This is NOT Sport mode, just normal, and no paddles. Seems like it waits an extra second, then hits 4th harder and lurches forward. Shut truck off in traffic and restarted. Next slow down was normal, then each time afterward it was back to hitting hard.

After work today, noticed same thing again. When I got home, I disconnected the battery and went for another ride. All was smooth again. But, then I noticed I was getting hot, so the AC was not on because I had disconnected the battery. Decided to turn the AC on and go for another ride. Yep, the hard downshift to 4th and surge was back right away.
It was warm starting yesterday, so in the last 1800 miles since new, barely had AC on other than defrost etc. Have no idea if AC has any connection.

Anybody had any hard downshift issues from 5th to 4th??? Feels like the ECM/TCM is getting screwed up or indecisive.
 
#3 ·
I have this issue on my 2016 R/T after asking for an ECM update for harsh 2-1 downshifts. The 5-4 wasn't a problem before the update. 2-1 is still there, but is nowhere near as bad as 5-4. I'm going to see if I can get the old software flashed until they get this sorted.
 
#5 ·
Same problems on my 16 with now 6800 miles. Started as a hard 2-1 downshift coming to stops. Now, it's 5-4, 3-2 and 2-1. On occasion when slowing down and having to accelerate again as traffic picks up, the car is sluggish and hesitates to start accelerating. This happens in eco and standard mode. Once we use sport mode, almost all of these symptoms pretty much completely go away. Getting tough to deal with daily.


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#6 ·
On the way to dinner last night told wife what I had noticed. Was watching selector when slowing to stop. When it downshifted from 5th to 4th, she said, wow did you hit the gas. So she could feel the harder shift and surge forward. On way back home, flipped to Sport mode for last two slowdowns, and didn't have the 5-4 problem as Grabber mentioned.

I drive in sport more than regular, so may be why I'm noticing it more. Plus, if Sport takes out the hard 5-4 downshift, seems like the programming of the standard setting may be off and not the transmission.
 
#7 ·
After work today, noticed same thing again. When I got home, I disconnected the battery and went for another ride. All was smooth again. But, then I noticed I was getting hot, so the AC was not on because I had disconnected the battery. Decided to turn the AC on and go for another ride. Yep, the hard downshift to 4th and surge was back right away.
It was warm starting yesterday, so in the last 1800 miles since new, barely had AC on other than defrost etc. Have no idea if AC has any connection.
I wonder if there's some programming that keeps the RPMs up a little with the A/C on, and that effects the shift?
 
#8 ·
Our 2017 Citadel has over 8K miles now. I have noticed the 5-4 jerky downshift when slowing down. I would say it started between 6k and 7k miles on the odometer. I haven't had any work done to the car other than a quick oil change at the dealer. It only happens occasionally. I haven't been able to figure out a pattern. We live in TX, so the AC is pretty much running all the time. And I drive in the regular mode and not in a spirited way.
 
#21 ·
Now with 26K miles, our 2017 Citadel Hemi is doing this rough 5-4 downshift a lot more often now. The downshift seems to be smoother if I slow down very gently by braking much sooner and riding the brakes longer with light pressure. We don't drive the car aggressively, but we don't baby it, either. So it would require a change in our driving habit to do this every time. I agree it could be dangerous when the car surges forward when you least expect it. When you brake you expect the car to slow down, not speed up.
 
#14 · (Edited)
My '15 Durango R/T downshifting was smooth as silk for the 1st 15K miles. Now, at 17K miles, it is at the dealer for the second time for 5-4 & 2-1 hard downshifts. First time, they told me that the controller adapts shift points based on the way we drive. They "cleared memory" & recommended I use Performance mode. Problem was still there. This time, they "cleared memory" again & told me they couldn't duplicate the problem, even driving it hard. I told them to try harder, since it worked for 15K miles. Tomorrow, they will "clear memory to the ground", reload the program, and calibrate as if they installed a new transmission. We'll see whether that cures the problem for another 15K miles. The irritating part is that the dealer cannot do anything else about the issue, so they say that the hard downshifting is normal operation! If that gets out to too many potential buyers, they'll lose business. I'll update this post after I get the D back & run it a few miles.

2018-07-20 Follow-up:
Got the Durango back from the dealer, with Powertrain Control Module (PCM) memory "cleared to the ground". The hard downshifts were still there, although not quite as hard. The service advisor mentioned to me that part of their PCM calibration procedure involved coasting to a stop from highway speed. Using that thought, during my driving around town, I lightly braked from city speeds (<45MPH) to 0 MPH religiously for about a week. The hard downshifts are gone. The transmission shifts like new again! My guess is that the key is to lightly brake at a constant deceleration rate to 0 speed (like we're supposed to do at stop signs). Multiple cycles of this constant deceleration seems to reset the downshifts. If anyone knows of a more rigorous procedure we should follow, please let us know.
BTW: I could detect no difference in downshift performance between ECO mode vs. Performance mode.
 
#17 ·
My '15 Durango R/T downshifting was smooth as silk for the 1st 15K miles. Now, at 17K miles, it is at the dealer for the second time for 5-4 & 2-1 hard downshifts. First time, they told me that the controller adapts shift points based on the way we drive. They "cleared memory" & recommended I use Performance mode. Problem was still there. This time, they "cleared memory" again & told me they couldn't duplicate the problem, even driving it hard. I told them to try harder, since it worked for 15K miles. Tomorrow, they will "clear memory to the ground", reload the program, and calibrate as if they installed a new transmission. We'll see whether that cures the problem for another 15K miles. The irritating part is that the dealer cannot do anything else about the issue, so they say that the hard downshifting is normal operation! If that gets out to too many potential buyers, they'll lose business. I'll update this post after I get the D back & run it a few miles.
Get a lawyer and sue dodge
 
#15 ·
Never had this on my '15 SXT Blacktop. Think I had 34K on the clock when I traded it in. However, I'm feeling some rough downshifts on my '18 R/T Blacktop that definitely send me forward.
 
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#18 ·
I've noticed this with my 2016 R/T as well, for both the 5-4 and 2-1 shifts.

The problem seems to go away with some highway driving and return with heavy street driving.

I believe this to be a potentially dangerous flaw, especially if the abrupt shift should occur during turns and/or in slippery conditions.

LH
 
#23 ·
I have been having the same issue on my 16 RT. Hard down shifting right as the car comes to a stop, and the car lurches forward. Does not happen in Sport mode. Had the dealer reset the shift points and this only resolved it for 24 hours. I will try gentle slow downs around town and see if that helps. I thought I would need warranty repair, but seems as though there is nothing really to do other than leave it in Sport mode. Seems like a software problem. Anyone have a dealer connection to see if there is a way to perform shift point resetting on our own?
 
#27 ·
This same thing started for me after the dealership did my cruise control recall last week. I have an appointment in the morning to have them take care of it.
2015 RT, 12 days left on 3/36 bumper to bumper warranty. We'll see.
 
#33 ·
I just started noticing this issue with the 5-4 downshift and had the recall done about 2 weeks ago, wish I had declined it. 15 R/T with 11.5k miles on it. The downshift thing is weird I thought I was gonna rear end someone at first cause I was pulling up to a light and felt it lurch forward.

Is anyone having this issue with aftermarket tunes? If it's truly a software issue and Dodge isn't gonna fix it... that might push me over the edge of voiding my warranty.
 
#30 ·
I guess it's the older X5 that uses the HP70. Maybe this problem is also on other ZF trannies too?

You could grab almost any random thread from Google talking about this, and someone in there will say the BMW dealer can't pinpoint the problem either.

It strikes me that not just one, but at least two, huge auto makers seem to be stumbling with this.
 
#31 ·
I think its the adaptive software which is adjusting to one's driving...which I think might have been mentioned.
If hardware, you'd think everyone would have the issue...my trans is still super smooth coming to a stop...like its in neutral...and I have the HP70 too.

Weird.
 
#32 ·
This same thing started for me after the dealership did my cruise control recall last week. I have an appointment in the morning to have them take care of it.
2015 RT, 12 days left on 3/36 bumper to bumper warranty. We'll see.
Got my DD back from the dealer this weekend. They had it for just over a week for that, the autopark recall, and a SiriusXM reception issue.
Transmission problem: could not duplicate.
SiriusXM problem: could not duplicate.
Autopark recall: done

I took a drive with the service manager and it didn't do it!
Got it home and less than 10 miles driving it's started doing it again. :(

I'm going to have to hope that it's just adaptives that will have to be relearned over time. Is there a specific leaning procedure I should be following?
 
#36 ·
Well i'm back from hibernation, to report i have the 5-4 downshift surge issue.

This is my wifes daily driver. I drive it occasionally. Now that temps have lowered, i notice the 5-4 downshift surge but only when the trans is cold. It doesn't matter if i slow gradually, or rapidly, when cold there is a dramatic (IMO) surge when going from 5-4 until trans temp gets well over 100.

It may be my wifes driving habits, that have brought this on. She is either all gas or all brake. I asked her if she noticed strange downshifting, and she mentioned she has noticed something but not sure when or what (she's not to keen on automotive stuff though).

My 15 RT just passed 40k miles. I have not had the recent recall work done, so there goes that theory. I do have a maxcare lifetime warranty.

I have a 15 Ram 1500 with the same trans, with 100k miles, and it does not do it. Always buttery smooth outside the first 1-2 upshift of the day when cold (which the durango does not have).

Both have the 2-1 slight kick when coming to a stop, which is common and a non-issue. This 5-4 surge is much different, and concerns me.
 
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#37 ·
After close to 4 months since the problem started it's still happening on mine (2015 RT) so it doesn't seem likely to be an adaptives/learning problem. It seems to only happen (or be pronounced enough to feel) once the transmission temp gets up over about 120-130*F. I'm convinced it's a programming issue in the TCM rather than a mechanical issue, though, since I can get a perfectly smooth downshift by using the paddle shifters. I've tested decelerating the exact same way in automatic and paddle shifting, both times it downshifts from 5>4 at 25mph, and repeatably bumps in auto but not when manually shifted.

I might have to try another dealer - I agree that the downshift bump could be dangerous under certain conditions, especially if someone else drives it and isn't expecting it.
 
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