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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
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I believe the problem is solved... i’ve been driving around for over an hour and it’s been working as it should..
After unplugging the Harnest and not having any rough engine conditions I decided to put some seafoam in it. After driving around not even a mile I decided to plug the harness back in to allow solenoids to activate with the seafoam running through it.

I don’t know if it was the seafoam or not maybe re-plugging in the Harnest got a better connection I don’t know but I haven’t had a problem since then.
Time will tell if I have any issues I’ll be sure to update them here for anyone in the future that may Google this..

Quick rundown of what was done.
Engine started running rough. with code p0304 and p1414.

Put a bottle of engine flush and did oil change
Switched coil with known working coil
Replace spark plugs.
Replaced MDS solenoid
Compression test
Pulled the valve cover to inspect valve function
Used seafoam in oil.
Unplugged and reattached main harness to MDS solenoids.

thanks for the help guys I was getting ready to pull the intake back off I’m glad I played around with that connector first
 

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Thanks for keeping us updated and hope your issue is solved!
Still trying to get a handle on how this occurred bu anyway....
To answer your question....the pcm would send a signal to MDS solenoids at the appropriate time. Solenoids activate and block oil pressure to the lifters. Valve spring pressure over comes the remaining oil in the lifters and they bleed down....to a neutral position....if you will...where the lifters are merely going for a ride on the camshaft...but not opening the valves...
And of course the pcm shuts off the signal for the injector to activate.

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Discussion Starter · #23 · (Edited)
At the time I had the valve covers off all valves were working properly. Which I was curious about how the system works because I would assume that’s the valves would not open if they were stuck in MDS mode.
but because the issue goes away after sitting and by the time I pull the valve covers off it sat a few days.. so I did not witness the valves not opening.

I’ve had a similar problem With the MDS on my other Durango. But it was the complete opposite it was having a problem going into four-cylinder mode. A oil flush and oil changed fix that problem that was four years ago never returned.

so I wondered if oil pressure/blocked passage would cause problems with engaging or disengaging? Are the hydraulic lifters naturally pressurized when MDS is off? Like do they fill up with oil pressure and expand the lifters?
Or does the oil pressure push on a locking pin allowing lifters to collapse?

The solenoid it self only has two wires so I imagine when power is applied it will pop open and when power is removed there must be a spring or magnet that pushes/pulls it back. So if it was a wiring issue i would think it would be a problem opening not closing. And because I did not get a OEM solenoid there’s a greater chance than normal it could be a defective part maybe it’s jamming up in the open position

Or Maybe it could be the hydraulic lifters are getting stuck in the collapsed position Due to sludge buildup?
but ever since I had the problem 4 years ago with my other Durango I always use a bottle of engine flush before oil changes.

and of course it could always be an issue with the computer doing bad things.

So far the problem has not returned but tomorrow will be the big test I have a 2 Hour drive to Albany New York and then back. Wish me luck.

I’m going to try to link a video of the valves here in a moment....

 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I posted this yesterday but its awaiting approval by admin I believe because I attached a video to it so im posting without the video..

At the time I had the valve covers off all valves were working properly. Which I was curious about how the system works because I would assume that’s the valves would not open if they were stuck in MDS mode.
but because the issue goes away after sitting and by the time I pull the valve covers off it sat a few days.. so I did not witness the valves not opening.

I’ve had a similar problem With the MDS on my other Durango. But it was the complete opposite it was having a problem going into four-cylinder mode. A oil flush and oil changed fix that problem that was four years ago never returned.

so I wondered if oil pressure/blocked passage would cause problems with engaging or disengaging? Are the hydraulic lifters naturally pressurized when MDS is off? Like do they fill up with oil pressure and expand the lifters?
Or does the oil pressure push on a locking pin allowing lifters to collapse?

The solenoid it self only has two wires so I imagine when power is applied it will pop open and when power is removed there must be a spring or magnet that pushes/pulls it back. So if it was a wiring issue i would think it would be a problem opening not closing. And because I did not get a OEM solenoid there’s a greater chance than normal it could be a defective part maybe it’s jamming up in the open position

Or Maybe it could be the hydraulic lifters are getting stuck in the collapsed position Due to sludge buildup?
but ever since I had the problem 4 years ago with my other Durango I always use a bottle of engine flush before oil changes.

and of course it could always be an issue with the computer doing bad things.

So far the problem has not returned but tomorrow will be the big test I have a 2 Hour drive to Albany New York and then back. Wish me luck.

Update.. i drove 4 1/2 hr today no problums
 

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The solenoid it self only has two wires so I imagine when power is applied it will pop open and when power is removed there must be a spring or magnet that pushes/pulls it back. So if it was a wiring issue i would think it would be a problem opening not closing.
First...glad your issue is all good!

I have had a 2012 hemi apart with a failed cam and lifters. Although not certain, I believe the pcm sends a signal to Activate the MDS solenoid which CLOSES it's valve to block oil pressure. When the pcm cancels the signal the solenoid (valve) opens allowing oil pressure to the appropriate assigned MDS cylinder lifters. Also for what it's worth the MDS solenoid does have a small fine screen to "filter" oil before going thru the solenoid and onward to the lifters. If this screen was to get clogged.....?????


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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
The old MDS solenoid screen was VERY CLOGGED with sludge.. almost unnoticeable that there was a screen there.
It may be possible oil passages were/are restricted with sludge causing oil pressure to be delayed/stoped in the reactivation. This could over time be a reason why the rollers collapse do to low pressure causing a harsh engagement eventually collapsing the bearing and taking out the camshaft.

Keegantimber... Did you notice sludge buildup on your MDS solenoids screens?
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Update i did another flush two bottles this time for 20 min, because i did have the problum come back on a cold morning about a week ago. i pulled over and turned the truck off and on and it was ok. other then that one time its been good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 · (Edited)
So this problum is back. At the moment I have the main plug for MDS unplugged after having to pull over. At first it did not fix the problem I had to clear the code for it to run right again.. Surprisingly I’m not getting a check engine light telling me that it’s not activating YET.
Tomorrow I plan on switching the battery with my other Durango for a few days and see what happens.
I don’t know what else to try so if anyone has any other suggestions Please! I am all ears.
 

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Have you tried running the vehicle for extended periods with the MDS harness unplugged? As in run it for a few days or more with multiple starts/stops and see how it behaves?

Still possible to have a defective solenoid or even a bad MDS wiring harness. Or an oil passage clogged?
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 · (Edited)
Have you tried running the vehicle for extended periods with the MDS harness unplugged? As in run it for a few days or more with multiple starts/stops and see how it behaves?

Still possible to have a defective solenoid or even a bad MDS wiring harness. Or an oil passage clogged?
I have had it unplugged before but not that long.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
I had to unplugged on the way home today and dont plain on plugin it back in until I find something new to try.
I had many problems with it today..

I noticed today driving around with tow haul mode on works to keep it from deactivating.

This morning was when it started when the truck was cold. After pulling over and turning it off then back on and then accelerating quickly seem to go away for the rest of that Drive cycle

I had a lot of stops today. And the problem kept coming back. Until finally on the way home I had to pull over and unplug the damn thing.
Even after unplugging it was still running rough I had to clear the code and then it was fine again.

so now I’m worried it could be a computer issue or somethings cloged/sticking but I don’t know how to confirm either.
😣
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 · (Edited)
Just ordered a bi directional scan tool. I can only theorized without it..

Which reminds me..
What I can’t wrap my head around is when I unplug the harness and cylinder 4 is still off makes me believe something is sticking it doesn’t seem like the computer could control it anymore with it unplugged.

but at the same time clearing the code in the computer is what eventually fixed it yesterday after unplugging the harness didn’t work.
with the plug unpluged the scanner still showed MDS 4 active And fuel injector pulse .0

What tells the system that the MDS engaged properly or disengaged?

There has to be a sensor that’s the computer can use to tell if it has successfully engaged or disengaged. Maybe the cam and crank sensor.

This is why I need this tool!! This is what I thought about all day. cam and crank sensor isn’t even in the possibilities according to all-data. One starts to chases his own tail!
 

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Might be new PCM time!
 

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Just ordered a bi directional scan tool. I can only theorized without it..

Which reminds me..
What I can’t wrap my head around is when I unplug the harness and cylinder 4 is still off makes me believe something is sticking it doesn’t seem like the computer could control it anymore with it unplugged.

but at the same time clearing the code in the computer is what eventually fixed it yesterday after unplugging the harness didn’t work.
with the plug unpluged the scanner still showed MDS 4 active And fuel injector pulse .0

What tells the system that the MDS engaged properly or disengaged?

There has to be a sensor that’s the computer can use to tell if it has successfully engaged or disengaged. Maybe the cam and crank sensor.

This is why I need this tool this is what I thought about all day. cam and crank sensor isn’t even in the possibilities according to all-data.
It's possible something is sending the computer false information, making it think there's an issue with the MDS cylinder. That could cause the computer to cut fuel or spark to protect the engine. Once you cleared the codes it released whatever restrictions it placed.

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For Chrysler with many solenoids that don't have an associated sensor to monitor status or position...the PCM monitors the electrical circuit for a "Spike" in voltage to determine the state has changed.

Seeing as how your scanner still shows the solenoid as being active with the MDS wiring harness disconnected, that leads me to believe the PCM has an issue internally. Or you have a wiring issue somewhere between the MDS wiring connector at the intake and the PCM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
If the computer is killing fuel and spark on purpose because it thinks cylinder 4 MDS is activate even though the MDS as unplugged. It could still be mechanical and/or electrical.
Thank about it.
The cam and crank sensor feeds the computer together in a Hall effect signal. Controlling the fuel and spark also detecting any misfire. BUT..
A Mechanical problems on a MDS cylinder could confuse the computer.
A mechanical issue should not be random I would think.
unless it’s the hydraulic lifter or clogged oil passage?
Or it’s the components in the computer that control that cylinder that may be failing?
I would say I should rule out any wiring due to the nature that the MDS solenoid is a magnetic switch on/off I would assume if It was a wire It would not engage at all.
 

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Yep. Agree with DuRonbo. Only other idea I have....if you know the wire colours for MDS 4...Disconnect them from the harness at the PCM...taking the wiring right out of the equation. This may require a wiring schematic and pin out diagram of the pcm tho.
Or...I wonder if there is one separate connector at the pcm for all the MDS solenoids? ??

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