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Need Help ASAP - Antifreeze

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tgbraley

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I'm at work and don't have access to my FSM?or any other documentation. I have a 2003 R/T D with 5.9 and the antifreeze in it now is a reddish-pink color. What kind is it? I need to pick some up on the way home and have no idea what to get.

Thanks!
 
#2 ·
Was it ever a different color? To my knowledge Chrysler started using/recomending HOAT type fluid.
"The use of aluminum cylinder blocks, cylinder heads, and water pumps requires special corrosion protection. Mopar AntiFreeze/Coolant, 5 Year/100,000 Mile Formula (MS-9769), with organic corrosion inhibitors (called Hoat) is recommended. This coolant offers the best engine cooling without corrosion when mixed with 50% distilled water to obtain a freeze point of -37C. If it loses color or become contaminated, drain, flush, and replace with fresh properly mixed coolant solution."

http://durangoclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=63978&highlight=hoat#63978
 
#4 ·
Is the HOAT coolant and the Dex cool stuff the same?

Ron
 
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#7 ·
IMHO,

Order a new upper and lower radiator hose from the stealer. You'll need them sooner rather than later. Get two gallons of the Prestone 50/50 premix. Pull the lower hose off allowing the fluid to drain fully. Remove upper hose. Replace upper and lower hoses. Fill radiator to top with Prestone. Replace fluid each 36,000 miles. Replace hoses every 3 fluid exchanges.

You'll be fine from there.

IndyDurango <--- Has never heard of this HOAT stuff EVER until reading this thread today. HaveOftenAssumedTrouble when using new stuff. :)
 
#8 ·
Grasshopper, aka TGB:

The mythical solution you seek goes by Mopar PN 05066386AA. They're quite proud of it as it goes for ~$18 a gallon.

Your best bet is probably the local stealers parts department. I also thought it was reddish or pink, but further checking reveals it to be a shade of orange.

Definitely not the same as Dex Cool. Even though you could mix it with a G05 coolant such as Prestone amber global coolant, I wouldn't as amber and orange wouldn't look good.

Don
 
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#9 ·
New prestone is good for all types of replacements
Steve
DOC Pres
 
#10 ·
Good stuff Don. Thanks!

Mopar Antifreeze/Coolant
5 Year / 100,000 Mile
Embittered (HOAT)
Mopar Part # 5066386AA

As for me? NEVER would I go 100,000 on any fluid. Remember, the ones that recommend that are the same ones that sell new vehicles.

It's not DexCool as mentioned above. Here's what I found:

  • "Both the Ford and Chrysler owners? manuals don't recommend using unapproved extended life products such as DEX-COOL or equivalents in their vehicles and state that improper maintenance may invalidate the warranty of the cooling system. In addition, many vehicles aren't designed for DEX-COOL or equivalent organic acid, extended life coolants. For example DaimlerChrysler is reported to have experienced solder corrosion issues in heater cores with some DEX-COOL type fluids."

Also, found this: Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT.) Valvoline says it'll last 150,000 miles :shock:
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=10

IndyDurango
 
#11 ·
That only for newer vehicles? When I had a coolant drain/refill done at the dealer they used the good ole green stuff. Never had an issue so who knows. When I bought the D at that same dealer it had the green stuff as well.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
LOL?

As far as replacing the upper hose, the dealer did that last Friday, along with a coolant flush & fill?now the D's running hot?sitting in traffic will cause the check gauges light to come on and the temp gets almost into the red zone. I checked the mixture on Sunday evening and found it was a bit watery?took it back to the dealer Monday and now it appears to have some more antifreeze added to the mix. It's still running hot tho?
I had added some Prestone "mix-with-anything" green coolant to the overflow and was told by the service mgr that mixing the green with the red would "cause it to jell"; and "adding it to the overflow won't help since it's an overflow, it goes one way-out"
Now I'm not a super smart guy, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I know that the overflow is to catch coolant when the engine get hot and to supply coolant back to the system as it cools -the coolant flows both ways.

I'm wondering if I'm looking at a water pump failing or a t-stat sticking?
How can you check a water pump to verify it's flowing or pushing the correct amount? or is it an all or nothing situation?

TIA!!
 
#14 ·
They either didn't burp your D properly or you have a blockage caused by them flushing the crud thru the system
There's a specific procedure for removing all the air and it's critical to proper cooling function.
They probably should have replaced the stat as well when they did all this work.

Steve
DOC Pres
 
#15 ·
The percent mixture antifreeze/water isn't really going to cause it to run hot. Actually straight water is a better conductor of heat from the engine. The antifreeze raises the boiling point. Straight water cools better but the upper limit is 212 F where gas bubbles will start forming. Then the system won't work.

You're correct, adding to the overflow will eventually get back into the engine as the fluid expands and contracts.

There's not too much that can stop the water pump from working. It's mechanical. The impeller is attached to the shaft so, pretty much as long as the shaft is turning, it'll move water. What usually goes are the bearings then it won't run true but will still move water.

Causes for running hot:

Blockage of the radiator external or internal. Is there possibly a lot of debris on it or in the fins (dirt, debris, bugs?) Internal, how well has you system been kept up over the years? Regular changes? With weak antifreeze, corrosion and gunk can build up clogging the radiator and internal engine passages.

Thermostat stuck.

Mechanical fan clutch can go. This would be most apparent when not moving. When driving, air flow from vehicle movement provides most of the cooling. When sitting, it's up to the fan. Your 03 has an additional electric fan which should be coming on. The electric fan alone apparently has enough flow to cool without the mechanical fan. There are people who have taken off the mechanical fan and just run the electric fan (98-00 doesn't have the electric fan.)

I think that mixing coolants is more a myth/internet rumor or is limited to one particular combination. I know when the Texaco Long Life (red, orange or whatever) came out years ago, I mixed it with the standard old Prestone and nothing happened. The more expensive long life antifreeze is just not worth it on an older vehicle. I've filled my 89 Mustang and the Durango with the stuff but on an older vehicle there's always something that needs to be worked on every couple of years where the fluid needs to come out. The standard stuff lasts just that long.
 
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#16 ·
I'd check to make sure your electric fan is working? that's the prime cooler in traffic on an 03? though the mechanical fan should engage and start to roar if you're getting that hot?

if you don't overheat at speed, that pretty much elimiates a stuck thermostat, though I suppose it's possible?

if your water pump impeller is damaged or really really worn this could cause overheat in traffic, but this is pretty low probability?

it's possible that you have an air bubble, though the engine should burp itself after a few heat/cool cycles (assuming your radiator cap and recovery system are in good shape)? if you open your radiator cap when the engine has cooled overnight, it should be full to the top? if not, you have a cap/recovery issue

but I'm betting on the fan?
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
Checked the fan?

You're correct on the clutch catching and roaring when it gets hot, it has been doing that. I checked the electric fan last night. According to my 01 FSM, the electric fan should come on either when the engine get to a certain temp(can't recall the exact number) or when the A/C is switched on. I assume it'd be the same for 2003. I turned the key on and turned the AC off. Then started the truck?no electric fan movement. I then turned on the AC, still no electric fan. Killed the engine, checked the fuse in the PDC for the fan, it appeared to be good. Pulled the relay for the fan, tapped it a couple of times, popped it back in and then started the engine with the AC off. No movement from the electric?then I cut the AC on, and the fan started spinning. The fan appeared to not be spinning as fast as I think it should, but that could be because I was looking thru the clutch fan as it was spinning, optical illusion kinda thing?but it still didn't sound loud enough while running.
Cut the AC off, fan stopped, AC back on, no movement from the fan. Tapped the relay some more, couldn't get the fan to spin again.
Definitely something with the electric. Could dripping coolant have shorted a connector or the fan motor?(The upper hose was leaking, hence the replacement)
I suspect a bad/sticking fan relay. Gonna go find a replacement for it this morning.
I assume autoZone/Advance auto should have a replacement relay?
Anything else I should look for? wiring? connections? etc?

Guys you don't know how much I appreciate everyones help with this!

Thanks!
 
#18 ·
I can't correctly parse this, but this is what the FSM says? FWIW?

"The relay is energized when the coolant temperature is above 80? C (176? F) or battery temperature sensor above ?12? C (10? F) or air conditioning is selected and coolant temperature is above 95? C (203? F) or air conditioning is selected and battery temperature sensor is above 41? C (106? F.)
The fan is then de-energized when coolant temperature drops below 82? C (180? F) or battery temperature sensor below ?9? C (16? F) or when air conditioning is selected and coolant temperature is below 92? C (198? F) or air conditioning is selected and battery temperature is below 38? C (100? F.)"
 
#19 ·
On an 03 with a 5.9, there are two fuses involved in the radiator fan; fuse 10 in the junction block, and fuse 15 in the PDC. (but 10 isn't likely to be bad as it powers a pile of other stuff.)

if you pull the relay and jump pin "30" to "87" the fan should run even with the engine off.
 

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#20 ·
If the mechanical fan is roaring, then it's sensing heat from the radiator? so if the electric fan checks out OK, I'd definitely look for obstructions?
 
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