Dodge Durango Forum banner
41 - 60 of 157 Posts
Discussion starter · #41 ·
What is your reasoning for swapping the rear setup on your 2015? Is it for strength, or for the gear ratio, or something else?

All Durangos come with 230mm axle shafts. R/T, SRT and Hellcat all use the same axle shafts. So there's no point in swapping for that, as you're vehicle has the same axle shafts a Hellcat will have.

The challenge you will have in trying to fit an SRT or Hellcat Durango rear differential onto your 2015 will be the electronic limited slip differential (eLSD) unit. This is an electronic locker for posi-trac and your 2015 will have no way of hooking up the electronics for controlling it.

If you really want an SRT or Hellcat rear setup, look at LKQ Online. You can get one pretty cheap from these guys. But like I said, you will have no way to connect the eLSD to the vehicles electronics.

If your mechanic plans to install a traditional locker instead of an electronically controlled one ... then why bother swapping the differential and rear sub frame? Just swap out the internal carrier to whatever gear ratio you want with a traditional limited slip unit.

I would bet your mechanic has done Hellcat swaps before, but most likely has done them on Chargers and Challengers. And in those cases, swapping the entire rear probably makes it a ton easier to strengthen it up. But in a Durango, it'll be a different story.
And as to gear ratio, I truly was wanting the lowest 2. Something ratio to take torque out of it. Make it come into the power slower to help prevent losing rear end traction. Which of course would put more actual stress on the axles I would assume when it's coming into power. My reasoning there is, more torque causes tire traction loss, once you lose traction you lose stress or pressure on the axles. With a lower gear it tends to keep traction then when boost is kicking in and stress is highest, traction is there and stress would be higher in my theory.
Either way, I will have heavier duty axles made if I have to, but I want the strongest diff in it that you can put behind these motors. My diff in this 5.7 I truly don't believe would hold up 10k miles
 
Yes, I want the strength in the subframe cradle that the higher end hellcat components rest in.
What do you mean "higher end Hellcat components"? Which components are you talking about?

As to the limited slip etc, I'm not super savvy on that but my rt has a traction button that when I push it, both tires will smoke out when I power brake it?????? Is that different than what you're talking about?
And what would prevent me from having this option switch you're talking about?
No, that's not what I'm talking about. The switch you're referring is the switch to turn off traction control. What I'm talking about has no option switch or button. I'm talking about an electronic limited slip differential. The vehicle's electronics control when the limited slip is engaged and when it is not. If you swap in an SRT or Hellcat rear differential (with or without the subframe), you will need some solution for making the eLSD work in your 2015. My opinion is it is not worth doing that as the ring gears and axle shafts are the same size in a Hellcat as they are in your current vehicle. You won't be gaining any strength by swapping over.

The computer will be a hellcat computer and tcm will be for the same. Is it because it simply Lacks the switch? If so, then would a durango hellcat dash solve that?
No, there is no switch. You can't just connect a Charger Hellcat's PCM and TCM to a 2015 Durango's Canbus network and expect all of the peripheral items to all of a sudden be functional. There are more ECUs to consider, like the BCM, the ABS, suspension controller, etc ... I do not believe the eLSD is controlled by the PCM nor the TCM. Maybe it's the suspension controller? Not sure ...

Keep in mind the Durango Hellcat and SRT models have the electronic Bilstein suspension with drive modes. I don't know if a Charger has something similar.

Also, I was going to buy a srt u connect screen so I get the traction control and other options and the guy selling it to me told me don't bother because when the hellcat ecu was connected to the u connect I have those pages would automatically pop up in my current u connect and the options would immediately be there.
It is very obvious this guy you're working with has never done this to a Durango. On a Charger, yeah .. the SRT screens can be activated pretty easily ... but even in a Charger, it takes making changes to the body control module (BCM) and not just connecting a different ECU.

In a Durango, it is a very different story. Your 2015 Durango's BCM will not support the functionality of the Hellcat. There didn't even exist a Durango SRT or Hellcat in 2015.

You won't be able to convert your 2015 to a Hellcat, there's just way too many differences in the 2 vehicles. Again, with the Charger, this is a different story, as the Charger Hellcat came out around the same time as the Charger R/T did. But with the Durango, the R/T was available well before the Hellcat came out ... so the electronics are not compatible like they are on Chargers and Challengers.

Just search the forum for adding SRT screens to a Durango R/T and see what you find.

In the end, it sounds like your "guy" is basing all of his promises and assumptions off of swapping Hellcat drivetrains on Chargers and Challengers. A Durango is very, very different ...
 
Do you suppose that trackhawk cradles and axles etc are all same fitment etc? Do you believe a 2021 helcat durango or 2018 trackhawk rear cradle will even bolt up in this 2015 rt?
No idea on interchangeability of the subframes, no one's ever shared info on it because of no need to have tackled those things. I know the diff is the same:

And Stoopalini beat me to the follow on questions. Even if you install a limited slip diff, they are electronically controlled and what's your mechanic's solution path... which is a small issue versus the PCM and operating the engine with the Durango. That's typically aftermarket engine ECU solution paths or specialized PCM programming... Hate to say it, but your mechanic got you WAY out of cost and solutions.
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
Good luck, although I could be accused of ageism in reverse , I'm compelled to mention that your posting style resembles either one of my 2 sons ages 17/20...
I get told I look young and act young for my age all the time. And I feel younger by far. I was born in the 70's though so I been around a couple 2 or 3 blocks. Did you figure out how I'm gonna fix this shitshow I got going on yet???
 
Discussion starter · #47 ·
You're not gaining any additional strength as your Durango has the same size 230mm axles and diff size. Your 3.09 gears should work fine too. If you're worried you could look into the JXB Performance rear diff brace they make for Trackhawks and Hellcat Durango's. I don't know if it bolts up to the 3.09 diff, but you can contact them for support.
Personally I would NOT worry about the cradle or diff until it breaks, as those are a dime a dozen in recycle yards.

So you think using some of bracing and a hellcat cradle and rear diff and axles will be sufficient to be long lasting reliable? I saw the bracing kits. Only for trackhawk and hellcat durangos so far but if they will hold up in 2wd I'm game. When I tune this motor I will have it tuned stock. Not pulling alot of timing and putting on fully upgrades. Just looking for the reliable 700hp it's suppose to make.

Thanks
 
@Jstarks11 What have you budgeted for this? I'm at 550hp on my setup (see my signature) and in it about $12k thus far. And I didn't have to solve for all the Hellcat peripherals to keep a Hellcat PCM happy.

And Stoopalini beat me to the follow on questions. Even if you install a limited slip diff, they are electronically controlled and what's your mechanic's solution path... which is a small issue versus the PCM and operating the engine with the Durango.
Small issue until all 707hp is directed toward a single rear wheel due to the LSD not locking up LOL!

Even with my 550hp setup, and SRT all wheel drive system ... I will still activate traction control at times just during normal driving. In track mode, from a dig .. I can get the wheel to spin slightly. I can't imagine what it would be like with 150 more hp on tap and only having one drive wheel!

My opinion is the best course of action for a Hellcat swap would be to keep the rear differential and sub frame as-is. There is no need to swap it out for the Hellcat variant as you don't gain any strength from doing so. This is different than a Charger or Challenger I'm sure .. but on a Durango, the R/T already has the same size ring gear and axle shafts as the Hellcat/SRT does.

For the motor, switching to the Hellcat PCM on the 2015 canbus is going to bring a large set of unknown compatibility issues. I think clearing all the trouble codes will be next to impossible due to the canbus integration. If it were a 2021 or newer Durango R/T, then I'd say go for the PCM + TCM swap, and possibly bring over a BCM from a Hellcat too. But trying to do that on a 2015 is going to be a nightmare. @Enthusiast might have some better perspective on this as he has a 6.4 swapped 2017 Citadel (which originally had a 5.7) with a Whipple on it, and I believe is running it all off a 5.7 PCM due to some of the issues I'm touching on here.

The Hellcat PCM is going to expect a PWM fuel system as well as a variable speed LTR (low temp radiator) fluid pump for the intercooler. How you make these things work on a 2015 canbus network is beyond me ... and I'm guessing, probably beyond most any shop.

That said, using the 2015 R/T PCM to drive the 6.2L might be easier but I'm not sure. The tuning would be very challenging due to the airflow model differences ... ie: trying to calibrate the 5.7 PCM's airflow model for a 6.2L.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: goodmanale
This is no different than swapping a V8 into a V6 car. You should've started with a HC Durango.

Part numbers:

2023 Durango HC Rear Cradle (AWD): 68306111AE
2023 Charger HC Rear Cradle (RWD) 68339862AA

2023 Durango HC Rear Diff (AWD) 3.70 Ratio 53010813AD
2023 Charger HC Rear Diff (RWD) 2.62 Ratio 68427793AA

Generally, the engines and transmissions are direct interchange between the LD and WD. But not the harnesses. We'll get to that.

The CV axles are different. Brakes are different. You'd also need to upgrade the front and rear suspension. No idea how you'll get the engine and transmission to talk to the ECM and BCMs. Even if you had the entire Charger powertrain and drivetrain harnesses, it's not going to work in a Durango.

One last thing: Beginning in 2018, Chrysler ECMs are locked, and also blocked. In other words, without heavy-duty aftermarket programming, you can't add a feature that was not available in a given model. You can't "add" a 5.7 to a V6 ECM or BCM. It wasn't an available option.

Best of luck.
 
Discussion starter · #53 ·
What do you mean "higher end Hellcat components"? Which components are you talking about?


No, that's not what I'm talking about. The switch you're referring is the switch to turn off traction control. What I'm talking about has no option switch or button. I'm talking about an electronic limited slip differential. The vehicle's electronics control when the limited slip is engaged and when it is not. If you swap in an SRT or Hellcat rear differential (with or without the subframe), you will need some solution for making the eLSD work in your 2015. My opinion is it is not worth doing that as the ring gears and axle shafts are the same size in a Hellcat as they are in your current vehicle. You won't be gaining any strength by swapping over.



No, there is no switch. You can't just connect a Charger Hellcat's PCM and TCM to a 2015 Durango's Canbus network and expect all of the peripheral items to all of a sudden be functional. There are more ECUs to consider, like the BCM, the ABS, suspension controller, etc ... I do not believe the eLSD is controlled by the PCM nor the TCM. Maybe it's the suspension controller? Not sure ...

Keep in mind the Durango Hellcat and SRT models have the electronic Bilstein suspension with drive modes. I don't know if a Charger has something similar.



It is very obvious this guy you're working with has never done this to a Durango. On a Charger, yeah .. the SRT screens can be activated pretty easily ... but even in a Charger, it takes making changes to the body control module (BCM) and not just connecting a different ECU.

In a Durango, it is a very different story. Your 2015 Durango's BCM will not support the functionality of the Hellcat. There didn't even exist a Durango SRT or Hellcat in 2015.

You won't be able to convert your 2015 to a Hellcat, there's just way too many differences in the 2 vehicles. Again, with the Charger, this is a different story, as the Charger Hellcat came out around the same time as the Charger R/T did. But with the Durango, the R/T was available well before the Hellcat came out ... so the electronics are not compatible like they are on Chargers and Challengers.

Just search the forum for adding SRT screens to a Durango R/T and see what you find.

In the end, it sounds like your "guy" is basing all of his promises and assumptions off of swapping Hellcat drivetrains on Chargers and Challengers. A Durango is very, very different ...
No. He has a charger he has done a bunch of this stuff to and then started doing other ppls chargers and a challenger. Then he got an srt durango and built it BUT did not do anything to the rear because appearantly srt durangos already have an upgraded rear subframe.

I had wrote you out all the reasons why I say better stronger components brother but when I went to go get pics to accompany it deleted my entire draft.

So below are pictures to show the reason why I do not have faith in my rear end over getting an actual hellcat rear end. Brakes are much higher end, diff appears WAY higher end just in visible structure and bolt amount and location. Suspension and ball joint and hub etc all show diff part numbers. I can't see so much difference only on a 710hp subframe for it not to be without the design of better structural I tegrity involved. Not to mention the two cradles being different in design and there not being ANY structural strengths in the one made specifically for the higher horsepower applications.
Take note of the pictures below. What you think?
Image

2015 durango rt diff
Puny with only 2 BOLT locations and a third if you consider the front wide hole by shaft side. And then looking at the cast, it looks 10 x's less structurally durable than this below
Image

Durango Hellcat diff
4 ery appearant bolt locations without one of them being 30mm wide like the one rt. And the cast looks much stronger. Am I tripping or do you guys see how this "LOOKS" the part of something more reliable with that power?
 

Attachments

Small issue until all 707hp is directed toward a single rear wheel due to the LSD not locking up LOL!

Even with my 550hp setup, and SRT all wheel drive system ... I will still activate traction control at times just during normal driving. In track mode, from a dig .. I can get the wheel to spin slightly. I can't imagine what it would be like with 150 more hp on tap and only having one drive wheel!
I only mean small issue in terms of solution path scale versus the engine integration/control. I definitely didn't mean small issue in terms of potential outcomes.

And, I probably have an unpopular opinion, but the SRT AWD traction control is crap. My baby TnG gets wheelspin and I've set off traction control so many times. But if I do any sort of acceleration from a stop while turning (and not excessive turning either, like off ramp lane turning) it's consistent. I've had plenty of other AWD systems, this one's the worst.
 
Discussion starter · #55 ·
BTW from what I see the Charger Hellcats came with 2.62 gears...the Durango is 1000 lbs heavier than a Charger. You are going to want at least 3.09 diff ratio to get moving...top end not going to be a problem. :)
I hear you I really do. You are probably completely correct. However, my train of thought was. They made durango hellcat 4 wd ONLY probably for a reason. My bet was that reason was because with just 2wd, that ass end is DANGEROUS. around turns, and even stomping it at 60mph. So to make a 2wd hellcat...... my THEORETICAL thinking says, 2.62 would take a GRIP of that torque out of the picture and make it safer. I'm not trying to build a race car with this in least bit. I don't care about quarter miles or any that. I just do alot of LONG distance travelling and I want twice as much power as I have now to honestly just be able to pass the 17 piled up idiots who think the fast lane or passing lane is the cruise lane, get around them before being blocked off. Be able to go from 75 up to 120 and get around ppl and get back on my cruise control. Thought about building the 5.7, thought about just getting a 6.4, but both of those options were just as expensive and more for the building one, than just getting a hellcat motor and Trans. I got it for 1000 bucks more than a 6.4 with tranny.
So here my dumbass is. Should just got the damn 6.4
 
Jstarks:
What Stoopalini said!!!!!!!
Respectfully, please refer to my post #7. While we have a number of knowledgeable folks here who have modified their vehicles quite a bit, I don't believe we have anyone on board who has done a Durango Hellcat swap themselves. We sure would not want to mislead you, which be costly and disappointing.

One of the reasons I'm not saying much is that I'm not a mod guy. I like to buy and maintain/drive them as they came oem.
I wish you great success on the project.

Re the 6.4L swap, we do have a member or two here who have done that, and can speak very well about it.

Don
 
Take note of the pictures below. What you think? View attachment 136314
2015 durango rt diff
Puny with only 2 BOLT locations and a third if you consider the front wide hole by shaft side. And then looking at the cast, it looks 10 x's less structurally durable than this below
View attachment 136316
Durango Hellcat diff
4 ery appearant bolt locations without one of them being 30mm wide like the one rt. And the cast looks much stronger. Am I tripping or do you guys see how this "LOOKS" the part of something more reliable with that power?
The SRT differential has an electronic limited slip unit inside. That's why the housing is larger. But the ring gear is still 9.06" on all V8 Durangos and the axle shafts are still 230mm on all V8 Durangos.

Have you checked out the LKQ link I provided above? Here are the carrier assemblies. All V8 Durangos have a 9.06 ring gear and 230mm shafts.

Image


In terms of the housing mounts, I don't think your pictures are accurate. Is that 1st picture a front differential unit?? It's my understanding the mounting for the rear units is the same between the eLSD and non-eLSD equipped versions ... but I've never dug into it to confirm.

If you feel you need the SRT/Hellcat differential housing for some reason, then the question remains: How do you solve for the eLSD functionality? Without solving for this, you will only have one drive wheel. The suspension controller is what controls the eLSD (I confirmed this in the Chiltons manual) and your 2015 doesn't have a suspension controller. Heck, in 2015 ... there wasn't a Durango offered with a suspension controller, so you can't even adapt it to the rest of the vehicle's canbus by installing the missing hardware and turning features on in the BCM.

I'm telling you, this is way different than a Charger or a Challenger swap. It sounds like your guy did this to Durango, so I get it ... but you say he did it to an SRT Durango ... which would be 2018+ and it does have AWD, the suspension controller, and an eLSD already from the factory.

In 2015, none of this existed for the Durango ... so I've no idea how it can be made to work. If your guy knows, then awesome! But it doesn't sound like he does considering he thought the entire rear subframe from the Charger would bolt right up.
 
Discussion starter · #58 ·
What do you mean "higher end Hellcat components"? Which components are you talking about?


No, that's not what I'm talking about. The switch you're referring is the switch to turn off traction control. What I'm talking about has no option switch or button. I'm talking about an electronic limited slip differential. The vehicle's electronics control when the limited slip is engaged and when it is not. If you swap in an SRT or Hellcat rear differential (with or without the subframe), you will need some solution for making the eLSD work in your 2015. My opinion is it is not worth doing that as the ring gears and axle shafts are the same size in a Hellcat as they are in your current vehicle. You won't be gaining any strength by swapping over.



No, there is no switch. You can't just connect a Charger Hellcat's PCM and TCM to a 2015 Durango's Canbus network and expect all of the peripheral items to all of a sudden be functional. There are more ECUs to consider, like the BCM, the ABS, suspension controller, etc ... I do not believe the eLSD is controlled by the PCM nor the TCM. Maybe it's the suspension controller? Not sure ...

Keep in mind the Durango Hellcat and SRT models have the electronic Bilstein suspension with drive modes. I don't know if a Charger has something similar.



It is very obvious this guy you're working with has never done this to a Durango. On a Charger, yeah .. the SRT screens can be activated pretty easily ... but even in a Charger, it takes making changes to the body control module (BCM) and not just connecting a different ECU.

In a Durango, it is a very different story. Your 2015 Durango's BCM will not support the functionality of the Hellcat. There didn't even exist a Durango SRT or Hellcat in 2015.

You won't be able to convert your 2015 to a Hellcat, there's just way too many differences in the 2 vehicles. Again, with the Charger, this is a different story, as the Charger Hellcat came out around the same time as the Charger R/T did. But with the Durango, the R/T was available well before the Hellcat came out ... so the electronics are not compatible like they are on Chargers and Challengers.

Just search the forum for adding SRT screens to a Durango R/T and see what you find.

In the end, it sounds like your "guy" is basing all of his promises and assumptions off of swapping Hellcat drivetrains on Chargers and Challengers. A Durango is very, very different ...
So basically, even my brakes will not perform properly with putting on the brembo calipers and rotors?
This bcm you are talking about, all this stuff is too expensive and just not worth the time and money to do? I saw a video of a guy slapping hellcat brembos and rotors on his durango rt. Looked pretty straight forward. But you're saying it's a no go???
I'll post video below
 
Discussion starter · #59 ·
What do you mean "higher end Hellcat components"? Which components are you talking about?


No, that's not what I'm talking about. The switch you're referring is the switch to turn off traction control. What I'm talking about has no option switch or button. I'm talking about an electronic limited slip differential. The vehicle's electronics control when the limited slip is engaged and when it is not. If you swap in an SRT or Hellcat rear differential (with or without the subframe), you will need some solution for making the eLSD work in your 2015. My opinion is it is not worth doing that as the ring gears and axle shafts are the same size in a Hellcat as they are in your current vehicle. You won't be gaining any strength by swapping over.



No, there is no switch. You can't just connect a Charger Hellcat's PCM and TCM to a 2015 Durango's Canbus network and expect all of the peripheral items to all of a sudden be functional. There are more ECUs to consider, like the BCM, the ABS, suspension controller, etc ... I do not believe the eLSD is controlled by the PCM nor the TCM. Maybe it's the suspension controller? Not sure ...

Keep in mind the Durango Hellcat and SRT models have the electronic Bilstein suspension with drive modes. I don't know if a Charger has something similar.



It is very obvious this guy you're working with has never done this to a Durango. On a Charger, yeah .. the SRT screens can be activated pretty easily ... but even in a Charger, it takes making changes to the body control module (BCM) and not just connecting a different ECU.

In a Durango, it is a very different story. Your 2015 Durango's BCM will not support the functionality of the Hellcat. There didn't even exist a Durango SRT or Hellcat in 2015.

You won't be able to convert your 2015 to a Hellcat, there's just way too many differences in the 2 vehicles. Again, with the Charger, this is a different story, as the Charger Hellcat came out around the same time as the Charger R/T did. But with the Durango, the R/T was available well before the Hellcat came out ... so the electronics are not compatible like they are on Chargers and Challengers.

Just search the forum for adding SRT screens to a Durango R/T and see what you find.

In the end, it sounds like your "guy" is basing all of his promises and assumptions off of swapping Hellcat drivetrains on Chargers and Challengers. A Durango is very, very different ...
 
Funny thing ... Some of you may know I've an uncle who works for Stellantis (for decades now) and when I was investigating my build, I considered a direct connection motor swap. He ran my options by a few of the engineers and they said it would be much better to drop the Whipple on my 5.7 then attempt a direct connection motor swap. The reasoning was due to the engine controller and canbus system. The direct connection motors are really meant for non computer controlled platforms. The PCM they come with is just an engine controller and not designed to integrate into the broader vehicle canbus network.
 
41 - 60 of 157 Posts