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Discussion starter · #61 ·
Wow. That's a lot of work. Can't wait to hear more on your progress and the pics of finished work.
Thanks. Now that I'm putting stuff back in, I can kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel. The thought has occurred to me that I could have found an existing used truck for less overall, but chances are it wouldn't be equipped the way we wanted it. Plus I really like the red color and overall enjoy bringing a salvage truck back to life. None of the others I had looked at were red.
 
Discussion starter · #62 · (Edited)
I'm thinking of re-titling this thread more stuff needed, hurry up & wait. :( Instead, I'll re-title this post as how not to measure cam end play!

I went ahead & installed the cam this morning, and then torqued the thrust plate into place and checked the end play. Glad I did. Spec is .0031 to .0114 inch. As the dial indicator in the below pics shows, I'm at .085, way out of spec. I knew that as soon as I pulled on the cam to check the play- it was way too loose. The manual says if out of spec install a new thrust plate, so back to shopping I go. I suppose I should have ordered this with the cam, as it is a common replacement on the LS engine.

EDIT/UPDATE- the pics below are not how to measure end play. The upper gear must be installed.
I did some more reading here and found this thread on another forum. Same issue, and a member posted this as the cause and solution:
I figured it out, I was starting to think that the core hole plug on the rear was not installed properly. Because I always tested end play with just the thrust plate installed.
I reinstalled the old thrust plate just to try again for the 2nd time, and then looked at the cam timing sprocket, and boom there it was! the timing sprocket sandwiches the trust plate between the cam and itself, and there is your end gap play within specs. the sprocket "pulls" the cam forward
Just for info hope it helps!


After installing the upper gear, I re-measured and was within spec at .006 inch.

Zero, pushed back:
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.085, pulled forward:
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My Melling timing is up next. Good to finally see some made in the USA parts. I noticed my Elgin lifters say the retainers are made in the US, but the lifters are made in China:
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Discussion starter · #63 ·
So the timing chain/gear/guide/tensioner also didn't go as planned, not entirely my fault. I marked the gear dots with some orange (Hemi orange of course ;)) paint so I could see where everything was when I installed them. It took some finesse to get the dots at 12 and 6 o'clock and get the timing marks on the chains aligned, but I did it. The trick is to get #1 cylinder at the correct TDC (front cylinder driver side). I used the old crank gear and a large pipe wrench to fine tune the crank position.
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What should have been the simplest part of the job became impossible to complete. I used the Alldata torque values for the cam tensioner, and since the guide uses the same M6 bolts I used these values there as well:
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This didn't seem right, and even setting my wrench to 15 lb-ft I snapped the head off of one. I looked up general torque specs for M6 bolts and even a 12.9 rated bolt is well under 21 lb-ft.

I also managed to misalign the guide and cracked the aluminum bracket. Fortunately the broken off bolt came out by hand. I'm sure I have stretched the remaining bolts beyond use, so I'll get a new set of them when I buy another guide.
 
Discussion starter · #64 ·
I was able to correct this error with no added expense and ended up with better fasteners. I have a number of 12.9 rated M6 socket head bolts, and had 4 the same length as the OEM ones. Using a deep socket & a bench vise and then a punch, I pressed/drove off the washers from the old bolts (this ruins the threads) and drilled them one size larger so they fit onto the M6 bolts. Of course one of the washers was free since the head had snapped off one of the bolts.
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I realized I had put the guide on upside down, which made it unlevel and cracked the aluminum backing. User error strikes again. As it turns out, the Melling guide is a 1:1 copy of the OEM part. The nylon guide part that wears can be pried off with a screwdriver, so I did that & made 1 out of 2. I was then able to install the hybrid guide as well as the Melling tensioner. I rechecked that my paint marks still aligned, and then torqued them to 10 lb-ft. :)
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After that came the oil pump, which genuinely gets 21 lb-ft of torque on its M8 bolts. I called it a day at that point.


Tomorrow I'll tackle the timing cover with water pump attached. I have wire wheeled all of the bolts so they are ready to roll. I've also pressed in the new crank seal and degreased/pressure washed the assembly. Next on the list then is the oil pan and then when I lift the motor again for the last time (?) I can swap out the motor mounts. Maybe by then I'll have shipping confirmation on my $94 cylinder heads. The dealer has confirmed the order. So far so good.
 
That's just an amazing price on factory heads. I hope they are identical to yours.
 
Discussion starter · #66 · (Edited)
Timing cover and oil pan are on (still working on the dipstick tube), the oil pan was a tough job especially in the mid-morning heat but I wanted to go ahead and get it done. New motor mounts are in as well, went easier than expected.
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I think next I can reinstall some accessories. I can't put the balancer back on yet since the bolt I bought got shipped far & away by the post office, and I don't have a long reach installer. I looked into making one out of some M14x1.5 threaded rod as I had done for the LS motors, but the price for those far exceeds the cost of a dedicated installer ($40). Should have the installer tomorrow, so at least I can get the balancer on.
 
Discussion starter · #67 ·
A mixed day yesterday evening & today, but mostly success. I got the dipstick tube in OK. I'll have to avoid mangling it when putting the head back on.

The balancer was a different story. I got a china made installer shipped next day on Amazon for $45 delivered (it's on the way back as of tomorrow). I knew there was a problem when I opened it, sold as new, and it had been used. Oil residue all over the inside and loose parts. I had a number of problems with it that culminated in the threaded portion stripping. After spacing the nut out with some washers and parts from my other installer, I got the balancer part way on then had to make a local run to rent a tool to finish the job. At some point, I'll find some reasonably priced threaded rod and make my own installer. I can recycle the bearing assembly from my current one, so really all that is needed is a threaded rod, a flange nut, and some spacers or washers. Pictures below show some of the problems I encountered. My 32mm socket was not deep enough to turn the nut very far. Even a deep socket wouldn't have finished the job.

I got the AC compressor and belt tensioner back on, and also set the alternator in place. I think it may need to come back off to install the passenger side head. The PS pump installs directly to the driver side head, so it's on hold for now.

The Phoenix radio arrived, I'll post separately about installing it since I'm not planning to reconnect the battery until the engine wiring is back in place.

I'm still in limbo for the balancer bolt. Other pending parts include the seat wiring harness and the heads.
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The text below illustrates the several problems.
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Discussion starter · #68 · (Edited)
Phoenix radio install:
There are a lot of wires and this is intimidating out of the box. The first thing I did was download this video:

Note it has discrepancies to the actual harness, and he also states in there wires may be mislabeled. Not really a confidence builder. I went through what I had vs the video, and the bottom line is aside from the connectors that plug in, there are 8 RCA type connectors to connect. My truck required a pair of male to female splitters, I found them at Best Buy locally for $10. Many of the wires provided are not used. I wrote a spreadsheet and color-coded the connectors for ease of reference. I'll attach it, however it is in Open Office (ODS) format. Since I can't attach that format, I renamed it as a txt file. If you want to view it, simply download & rename it with the ods extension.

For the coax connectors:
Blue= GPS, use supplied adapter cable
Cream= AM/FM radio antenna, use supplied adapter
Violet (listed as "Curry" in AlldataDIY)= Sirrius radio, not used
Yellow= Cellular antenna per AlldataDIY, not used

Here's what the final wiring looked like, with some MS Paint color coding added (backup camera yellow can be seen on top of radio behind power connector):
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This remains untested until I can get the seat harness and put things back together.
 

Attachments

Discussion starter · #69 · (Edited)
I got an offer from an Ebay seller for a good price on the Grand Cherokee 20x10 wheels, but he only had 3. I decided to go ahead on these using TFH's logic of only buying tires once:
If you need new tires AND the wheel size is wrong then now is the time to get the correct wheels and tires. You're throwing good money after bad anyway, so you might as well get part of it right.
Here's an example pic:
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I found the best deal by mixing sellers, I ended up getting 2 from one and 2 from another. Total shipped was $481 + tax, or $515. No doubt they are dinged up some, but I can always paint them black if need be. Since they are likely missing center caps, if I go that route I found a set of used black with red SRT on eBay for $30. I think these with the red paint of the truck would look nice.
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Discussion starter · #70 · (Edited)
I'm at something of a standstill for now, but I did get a shipping notice on the seat wiring and 2 of the wheels. This parts seller charged over $20 to mail a harness that weighs 14 ounces, while they only charged $63 for 2 heavy heads. I guess it balances out in the end.

I also painted the LF wheel trim. I bought fairly expensive ($60) color-matched spray and clear coat paint and shot several layers of the base coat then several layers of the clear. It doesn't look bright enough red to me. I'll try and get a sunlight picture of it against the fender. Better than black anyway.
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Discussion starter · #71 ·
The crank bolt finally got here after touring the west and midwest courtesy of USPS. :( Spec on it is a whopping 133 lb-ft of torque. While that's within the range of a 1/2" drive wrench, I learned after doing this on an LS engine you need a larger torque wrench. I call this one Goliath's torque wrench, it is huge and 3/4" drive:
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Using the same bolt/rod setup I eventually hit 133. The bolt is an odd size at 21mm.
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I thought I had bought a 250mm length of M14x1.5 threaded rod some time ago, and sure enough I found it after the bolt was in place. I measured out the crank and pulley, and at 250mm in length I can pickup a M14 flange nut, a few M16 flange nuts and some more M14 washers in conjunction with my existing installer's bearing and make a decent pulley installer.
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I forgot to post recently that the replacement manifold heat shield & new bolt arrived. Now I just need heads to bolt them onto.
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The radiator is mostly in. I need to figure out how the top air shield mounts. I'm holding off on doing more for now until I find out the disposition of the heads. I did get a tracking number for the seat harness, it's now a couple of days away.

Finally for today my first pair of 20x10 wheels will be here tomorrow evening. I can assess their condition and see if I'm going to need to refinish them and order center caps accordingly. I found a site that sells used tires in decent condition, utires.com. The spare on this truck is apparently the original, as it has a 2015 date code. On that site, you can search by size and they list inventory by brand and tread depth. I found you can get the tire date code by chatting with them. The first tire I asked about was older than my spare. Glad I asked! These trucks use an oddball spare size of 245/65R18. That site only had 2x of those, and they were pretty expensive. I opted to go with a more common 265/60R18 (the size on the three other wheels now) and scored an off-brand tire with decent tread that was made in 2023. AFAIK, the steel full size spare wheel is 18x8, which is OK for the 265/60. I don't know how they do it, but I got it shipped for $48. I'm shopping for the main tires, 295/45R20 now. I don't plan on buying used for those, and will add in new TPMS sensors at install. If I recall the owner's manual or AlfOBD correctly, the TPM system can also monitor the spare, so I'll get 5x sensors.
 
Discussion starter · #72 · (Edited)
Two steps forward, one back. One of the items found inside the truck was one brake pad. I pulled the wheels off the driver side and sure enough the pads are down to the wear indicators front & rear. According to the build sheet, this truck has "ANTI-LOCK 4-WHEEL DISC HD BRAKES". I looked up a 2015 SXT and it lacked the "HD" part there. Apparently the difference is larger 350mm front rotors vs 330mm. One more thing to do. Just as well since the title has yet to arrive. According to Copart, it could be the third week of August before it gets here.

UPDATE- I found this site shows sales codes, to include brakes:

According to that, I have "BR6" brakes, which aligns with the 350/330 rotors F/R. I posted an info request thread here about upgrading to Brembos vs using high quality parts for my current setup. I'm trying to learn about the brakes on these and the Jeeps, but I'm a slow learner.

I went ahead and pulled off (literally leveraged off the caliper, it was stuck, see pad pics) the LF caliper and rotor. As with the cam, I'm glad I looked at this.

Here's the LF rotor before I took it apart. Note the wear indicator is up against the rotor.
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Here's the rear solid rotor. The wear indicator was also close on it.
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Old front pads:
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This was laying in the truck when I got it, so someone knew they needed brakes- though they needed more than one pad.
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The one ray of hope here was that the pistons retracted into the caliper OK. If I end up just doing a pad & rotor job vs the Brembo, this means it should function OK.
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Update-
I found this brake kit on Amazon that was on sale for $236 shipped for all 4 wheels. It has Akebono performance ceramic pads, which from what I've read should be a good fit for me. Not sure about the "Bison" rotors, but I'll have 30 days to try them out. I wanted to avoid drilled rotors.

I also heard from the parts place about the heads- they claim all orders take 2-9 business days to process, so in theory I should get notification by July 24. I looked up the seat harness and it was 14 business days from order to shipping notification. Good, fast, cheap: pick 2 again. :(

I also remeasured the threaded rod I found & realized it's not M14x1.5, but instead a similar but not the same 9/16-18. I knew something was wrong when one of my old lug nuts wouldn't thread onto it. I had ordered some nuts & washers from Bel Metric, so I'll have to source a threaded rod at some point.
 
Discussion starter · #73 · (Edited)
My first two wheels arrived this afternoon, and I'm not sure what to do since they appear to be 20x9 and were advertised as being 20x10. Offset looks to be around +34~35mm. EDIT, I forgot these wheels carry some type of stamping on them. Here's what I found on the spokes:
ET 34 (confirms +34mm offset)
588 20x9JJ R148B (confirms 20x9)
Made in China (no surprise there)
16+++++ and under that 17+++++ (no idea on either of these)
SAEJ2530 (apparently some type of test standard)
JIL VIA 840 KG (weight rating?)

On the hub, there were additional markings:
C and C7 under it in a box
H and B2 under it in a box
ET and 34 under it in a box (offset)

Doing more readings on the stampings, these appear to be "Performance Replica" (formerly "OE Creations") brand PR 137 replica wheels for the 2012-2020 GC SRT. They sell on eBay new for around $260, so getting them at an average cost of $125 used/shipped is not too bad. I found the manufacturer's site and they still list them new for $316. Apparently there was also a 20x10 version, so maybe I'll get lucky with the other 2 I bought.
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Outer to outer is close to 10":
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Inner to inner is around 9"
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Here is the 18x8 inner to inner:
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This pic shows the new wheel on the floor vs the 18x8 I bought to match what's on the truck. It's about a 1" difference.
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At least it fits:
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Clearly they are from a Grand Cherokee, but now I have to see if the 295/45R20 tires I was planning on using will fit. Anyone know what a 20x9 was used on?
 
Discussion starter · #74 ·
After giving this some thought, returning these wheels, even at the seller's expense, will be a pain. So far the two I have are not excessively road rashed or damaged. I looked at if I keep them, what are the various tire sizes I could use? The possibilities include:
  • 265/50R20, OEM size. The +34 offset according to a wheel/tire calculator will make them stick out slightly more than what I had. That's not necessarily a bad thing. This is the path of least resistance, as this tire's sweet spot for wheel width is around 9.0".
  • 285/45R20, just 10mm narrower than the 295/45, it will fit on a 9" wheel OK. It is slightly smaller in diameter (30.1 vs 30.4 OEM), but I can tweak speedometer settings with AlfaOBD. It's also 20mm wider, so it would look better in that respect IMO. I used the Will They Fit site and looks like no problems there. This would also slightly help the truck's 3.07:1 gearing, which is fairly tall.
  • 275/45R20, seems to have a more limited selection, and is even smaller by 2.3% than the 285/45.
  • 285/50R20, I read a posting here about using these on the same 9" wheels I have and the consensus was they would fit, but this tire is like 2.6% larger than OEM- it is basically the opposite of the 275/45. As far as the 3.07:1 diff, running a taller tire would hurt acceleration. May makeup what I lost by deleting MDS though.:)
The wheels I received today have blank center caps, which according to the listings most don't come with these. I popped one out with the idea of measuring it and making my own via 3D printing. No need to reinvent the wheel (pun intended) as someone has already uploaded a similar one online. While it was for a Grand Caravan, the size looks the same. I downloaded the file and played with lettering. My test print had "SRT" on it. It will take a couple of hours to print. The idea occurred to me I could make them with "R/T" on them to match the truck, and then paint them to match the wheels (my filament is black). If I can put my painter's hat on, I could actually paint the letters red. Here's a preview view of the RT one:
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Once my test fit cap prints, I'll try to get a pic of it in one of the wheels.
 
Discussion starter · #75 · (Edited)
I got the low quality SRT center cap printed, and used a paint marker to paint the letters. Came out more pink than red IMO. The top of the cap looks bad, but it was a low quality fast print, so that's to be expected.
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A big surprise was when it fit perfectly into the wheel:
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I'm printing a couple R/T caps overnight at higher quality settings. In the meantime, I found out these are "Performance Replica" brand replica 2012-2020 GC SRT wheels. I found markings on them that confirms 20x9 with +34 offset. Like so many things, they were made in China. They sell for $260-320 new, I go these shipped for an average cost of around $125 each. Visiting that site, I see they also made this wheel in a 20x10, so maybe I'll get lucky when the next 2 arrive tomorrow. Hopefully I won't get a 20x9 and a 20x10. If not, I think I can live with 20x9 for now. I've tentatively decided to go with the 285/45R20 tires.

EDIT- All of these wheels came or are coming via UPS. One thing I noticed when I logged in to my UPS account was that the first pair showed as weighing 35# each, while the pair set for delivery today are shown as 45# each. I doubt there is 10 additional pounds of packing, so I may have swerved in to a set of staggered wheels.
 
Discussion starter · #76 · (Edited)
Second set of wheels arrived today, and jackpot! Not only are they actually 10" wide, they are genuine branded SRT wheels. I heard from the first seller & he's willing to pay for the return. I'll give this some thought & read up more on staggered wheel setups.
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RT center caps painted silver/gray with red lettering:
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Discussion starter · #77 · (Edited)
I bought a used tire from United Tires for the spare position since it was 10Y old. Good transaction, accurate info, fast shipping and unreal price. This one was made in the 17th week of 2023. This tire was ordered on 7/16, delivered 3 days later via FedEx, and cost out the door was $51.35. It's a used 265/60R18 Arroyo Eco Pro H/T 114V with 9/32 of tread. I got the 265/60 since the OEM spare size of 245/65 was hard to find.
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Discussion starter · #78 · (Edited)
I put the Harbor Freight tire changer to use and with the help of some 24" tire irons and a 3D printed centering ring I got the old spare off. I drilled 2x 9/16 holes thru the plate to hold the wheel down, and used the 14mm caliper bolts from the LF wheel with some lug nuts until I can get some regular bolts. That worked well. I'll try to tackle installing the new to me spare tomorrow. I saw there was no TPMS on the spare, which was date coded as 2015, so it looked to be the original. When I was doing the Canbus work, I thought I recalled seeing something about a TPMS position for the spare, but reading the owner's manual it specifically says there is no TPMS for it. One less thing to do.

Also got the differential fluid changed, the manual calls for 75w85, but all I could find was 75w90 full synthetic, so I put that in. The old fluid looked really clean.

I'm still deciding on the tire/wheel situation.
Option 1: Keep the 20x9 and run OEM size 265/50R0 tires there. Use the 20x10 on the rear for a staggered setup with 295/45R20.
Pro: Lowest cost and hassle, no need to box up & ship the 20x9 back, plus I have not found another affordable true SRT 20x10. The second seller has 1 more, so I'd need one more after that. Lower cost to replace tires.
Con: 2 different tire sizes, can't rotate directional tires. Will likely involved mixed brands.

Option 2: Send the 20x9 wheels back and try to find another 20x10, presuming I could buy the third wheel the second seller has.
Pro: Same size wheels all the way around, can rotate directional tires front to rear. Presumably same brand of tires x4.
Con: Added hassle of returning 20x9 and expense of finding matching 4th 20x10 wheel. Higher cost to replace tires.

I hoped to have this wrapped up by the end of July, but the wife said I could take longer as needed.
 
Discussion starter · #79 ·
It's aggravating when something that should be fairly simple is not. I got the newer spare mounted very easily. I cannot get the beads to seat on it. I've tried a bunch of tricks such as ratchet straps, supporting the tire and jumping on the wheel to seat one side, etc. and nothing has worked. After spending a couple of hours on it I had to walk away. My shop is blast furnace beginning around 6 AM, which multiplies the frustration factor. I watched a couple of videos using something called a bead blaster, which in concept is a tank that releases a large amount of compressed air at the bead. I just don't see that working here. I also saw the starting fluid internal explosion method.
 
Why not just ask Discount Tire to mount it? Do it when you do the rest of your tires. You don't HAVE to do everything yourself.
 
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