Anyone relocate IAT sensor on a 4.7L w/ K&N FIPK?

2kDurango4X4 · Jun 27, 2008

:? Just wanted to know if anyone has relocated their IAT sensor to a K&N FIPK (Performance Intake Kit)? Looking for actual people who have done this please! I want to know what you thought as far as added performance or downfalls with this idea. I'm thinking about moving mine, I have a 2000 Dodge Durango 4X4 with the 4.7L engine. Any comments or thoughts are greatly appreciated.
THANKS!!

DCDAD · Jun 27, 2008

2kDurango4X4 said:
:? Just wanted to know if anyone has relocated their IAT sensor to a K&N FIPK (Performance Intake Kit)? Looking for actual people who have done this please! I want to know what you thought as far as added performance or downfalls with this idea. I'm thinking about moving mine, I have a 2000 Dodge Durango 4X4 with the 4.7L engine. Any comments or thoughts are greatly appreciated.
THANKS!!

Relocation of the AIT sensor has been around awhile, the theory is that the colder the air reading the more timing advance allowed by the computer, thus making more HP. looks good on paper, but that's about it. This is STRICTLY my own opinion, and nothing more.

Relocating the sensor from the manifold to the air intake is a very short distance, maybe only 1.5-2 feet of air travel at the most. The air is traveling through the air box and air tube on its way to your plenum rather quickly, and the amount of temperature change between the two locations is nil. The gains, if any, would be very little at best.

The best thing to do, is to leave your sensor in its original location, and get the coolest possible air delivered to your engine via a cold air intake setup, there are several out there, and plenty of opinions of which one is best. I myself, have a homebrew version of CAI, and I use the stocker air hat, as it flows well. I have gained a 30-40 degree differance from the stock air box. my intake air temp sensor is mounted in the plenum just under the TB. (M1 intake) and its working fine.

My air temp reads around 3-6 degrees above ambeint air temps, unless I'm sitting at a stoplight or something, than it soars into the 160 ish range.

Others will chime in, and I encourage you to listen to what they have to say, there are some very knowladgeable people here. and I don't claim to be no einstien.-Good luck

Ron

DCDAD · Jun 27, 2008

phiber_optik said:
The reason for the relo. is to get the IAT sensor out of the hot metal manifold that it's plugged into. That raises the temp quite a bit and isn't the actual intake air temperature. The relo. just helps get the correct Intake Air temp.

Phiber, That sounds very logical, however the sensor itself is designed to be put there. The engineers that designed it were well aware of the fact that the intake temps itself were going to be present, and sheilded the pick up for the air temp reading. Not trying to be arguementitive here, but mine reads just a few degrees over ambeint air, and if the manifold influenced the reading, I'm sure it'd read higher than that. If a person wants to relocate their IAT sensor, than go ahead, sounds like a good mod, its about as effective as a TB spacer on our motors. Just doesn't make much differance.

Actual cold air is the key,period.

Ron

IndyDurango · Jun 27, 2008

Watch it DCD, you'll be the next one 'on the list'. :bugeyed:

As for the benefits? unlike a TB Spacer which is pure snake oil, IMHO you'll gain a small tiny bit at times by doing a relo.

Correct on the theory that the air is cooler on the tube of a CAI than up on the TB. I'd say that applies to plastic CAI tubes and not so sure as much on a metal CAI since the metal is absorbing heat at a different level than the plastic would be. I'd also say IMHO it's correct that the sensor was designed as one being located where it's thus the Engineers should have considered all that in advance. I think the prevailing idea is the sensor absorbs general engine heat and not specifically TB heat? but then again, thinking about it? at some point isn't it all the same. :?:

Keep in mind, the concept is to try to signal the PCM that the air is cooler than it really is thus adding more fuel in a 'choke' type of situation. That situation in theory provides more HP due to more fuel. In today's $4+ a gallon fuel costs, I'm not so sure the gain is offset by the costs in return. Also, in the summer or times that the sensor is already up to temp (in a matter of minutes regardless of the time of year) I'd think the sensor would be sending normal temp readings back to the PCM almost immediately negating any gain previously had moments before.

So? again IMHO? I'd say logincally a relo works for only minutes after starting and is reduced to nothing shortly thereafter. Have I relo'd, no. Planning on it, yes. Why? Just because I guess. I *do* have a *complete* CAI setup *now* (ever feel how hot your cone filter is after running around town. I've thought to my self, "And that's cold air?" Of course YMMV.)

:idea: Side note? FWIW, get a new sensor and put it into the relo area. Leave the old sensor in place since you need to plug up the hole anyway. Swap it back and forth under various matched conditions and see what improvements? or nothing? you get out of it. :idea:

IndyDurango

tomk · Jun 28, 2008

alright guys, let's calm down.

Back to the original thread:

I've never relocated the IAT on any of my vehicles, but I've read a lot of threads from people who have.

The sense I get is that isn't a big win, like most of the other things you can do to fake out the computer, the computer eventually gets wise and compensates.

But YMMV. And please take this as a bit of info from a concerned member, and not as absolute truth? because I ran out of absolute truths back in my 20's?

?tom

MonsterD · Jul 3, 2008

this set up can perform better?

I'm lame at all that photo shop stuff, but here's a rough pic of what needs to change.

for the trucks were the cruise control was moved to the front, just push down on the cruise module. Just put your hand on it and give it a quick shove. It'll drop down a bit. That's where the white arrow is at. The brace where the yellow is at will bend a bit and it'll drop the module down a bit. This will allow you to put the filter higher away from the hot headers.

MonsterD · Jul 3, 2008

once you move module down, just loosen upper clamp and rotat

rotate the entire thing upwards. Then retighten the clamp.

DCDAD · Jul 3, 2008

Re: once you move module down, just loosen upper clamp and r

MonsterD said:
rotate the entire thing upwards. Then retighten the clamp.

Actually I get good cold air from that location, just a few degrees above ambeint air temp. works great. I did think long and hard about moving my CC tho, but when I got the results I'm getting, I'm just going to leave it be for the time being.

Ron

MWeed · Jul 3, 2008

You have cold air coming through the holes on the fenderwell right beside the airfilter there. It works great.

MonsterD · Jul 5, 2008

if you move it up, you'll be further from heat, and

you'll have more room to run a bigger filter. From the pic, who made that filter? The 9" is the best size. If your running a fully hopped up motor, you can put a bigger filter but you'll give up a bit pull off the line.
The smaller the filter, you'll feel a nice pull off the line, but when your moving you'll give up a bit on the upper end.
The 5.9 will fall on its face anyway right around 90mph, but with a 9" you'll still have strong pull at 75mph up til it falls on its face around 90.
The 4.7 with a few mods will pull just as hard as the 5.9 but it'll keep pulling on the top end.

I really appreciate the building of home brew kits, but DONT skimp on the filters. Your filter looks like the akimoto style of filter. They now make the DUB kits, they look great, but the quality is kind of lame. Even the quality of K & N dropped a bit when they moved from San Bernadino, and the company had some people leave. S&B filters used to the the same since they were made by people who left K&N. I haven't switched my trucks filter, but I think right now, AFE is making some of the best quality filters.

I can get the 9" for about $45, and the AFE is a right around the same price, but they're usually special orders. I used to buy so many filter, that 4 wheel parts near me, usually keeps a bunch of the K&ns in stock.

MonsterD · Jul 5, 2008

I forgot to mention something about the air flow

the motor and headers are throwing off tons of heat. That heat is going to rise, and then move backwards down over the top of the tranny.

If you removed that rubber flap next to the radiator, early trucks had them?later I don't think they had the flaps. Cost savings I guess, or they listed to everyone removing them.

So when your trucks moving, the air is going to be rushing in from the front. its better to be up higer in that flow of air, instead of being down on top of the header where your catching the hot air as is moving up and backwards.
That's why the original airaid kit was so lame. I saw even a few filters with melted sections. People used to cover over and after we swapped kit, they'd just leave their air aid kits for me to throw them away.

Please, just try it for a week. Lift it up a bit and you'll notice a difference. And if you put the slightly longer filter?it'll pull a little bit longer. The smaller filters pull hard, but they run out of umph?just can't flow enough.

I know, most of you don't know me, but you have probably only driven your truck with your mods. I used to drive everyones trucks. Usually when people came over, they'd take my truck out for a spin, then we'd take theirs apart and put parts on them?and then go for a spin. That was the best part, watching the smiles take over, and trying to scan the horizon for radar cops.
I think your filter is probably a 7" which is fine, but if you put a 9" on there you'd be love it even more.

and to the guy with the 4.7, that motor rocks. Get rid of your exhaust, put on an intake kit?and then check to see if Dan still makes 4.7 tbs. Then you'll be hard to beat. My dad had a 4.7, with a few mods, and that truck is still fun. My 5.9 has just about all the mods and its a pig now. Tweak too much and its hard to live with them. I drive it once every couple months, and its a blast to drive but I don't like the cam, and the M1. My D isn't built for speed, its built to run over stuff. I lost that hellacious pull off the line. Wish I had just done the intake kit, exhaust, TB and the computer. I have the reburned computer in the drawer, its made for 93 but they don't have 93 in CA. keep saying I'm going to send it back to get reprogramed, but I keep forgetting.

DCDAD · Jul 27, 2008

Re: if you move it up, you'll be further from heat, and

MonsterD said:
The 5.9 will fall on its face anyway right around 90mph, but with a 9" you'll still have strong pull at 75mph up til it falls on its face around 90.
The 4.7 with a few mods will pull just as hard as the 5.9 but it'll keep pulling on the top end.

Wow, I don't know about your 5.9, but mine pulls very hard up and beyond 120mph. Tried this once after the PCM flash, pretty scary, and plenty too fast for me, but it'll do it. I also have better low end grunt than before with my M1, and the only complaint so far is the tranny doesn't shift untill 6300rpm or so. Would like to see it shift around 5900 at WOT. All these results through the factory exhaust manifolds. Should inprove with the install of the PPH's. Yea, the filter is a cheapy, but it works for now. If I start having any heat issues with it, I'll look into relocating the filter. But with just a few degrees over ambient air temp, I've got no problem with that.

Ron

Anyone relocate IAT sensor on a 4.7L w/ K&N FIPK?

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