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GM today announced no more gas-powered vehicles by 2035

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Robdokwon

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Zero emissions new cars and trucks only by GM as of 2035, the company announced today. See NY Times story:

www.nytimes.com

G.M. Will Sell Only Zero-Emission Vehicles by 2035 (Published 2021)

The move, one of the most ambitious in the auto industry, is a piece of a broader plan by the company to become carbon neutral by 2040.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

This means Stellantis and others will soon join behind. This likely means no more gas engined Durangos and Rams, etc... in less than 14 years. Better get familiar with electric torque, folks, and where to have your electrician install your home 50 amp charging port. It's coming.

Good news is, as a die-hard car guy, electric power is actually pretty cool. After I drove the Tesla Model 3 Performance, I was blown away. That car is faster than nearly all but supercars. And that tech will only get better from here. I would imagine that buy the mid 30's, they come up with viable solutions to make pick-up trucks and SUVs fun, fast and range-worthy. Do not despair. Exhaust sound will be a thing of the past, though.
 
#2 ·
I highly doubt they will do away with gas entirely for 2 reasons: it doesn't work for long distances or heavy loads. Yes, there is more torque, but heavy loads rapidly deplete the battery life.

On another note, I live just a few hours south of the Canadian border. We frequently get temps below freezing. If you have to turn the heat on in an electric car, you will lose 50-75% of your range. They say that they get significantly better MPG with electric based on cost, but that's a BS marketing figure. If you look at the full battery capacity and calculate the amount of money it takes to charge at current electric rates and divide that by the total estimated range, it comes out to about the same cost to charge as it costs to fill a gas tank of a comparable vehicle; except if you need heat half of the year, an economy sedan would essentially equate to about 15-20mpg instead of 30.

The ONLY electric vehicle I would consider in my current location and lifestyle would be a Zero motorcycle. There is no climate control, so 98% of the battery is used for the drivetrain. The lights and display don't draw very much. But even so, I could only safely drive that between April and October and I still can't pick up the kids after school with that, either.
 
#6 ·
I find this all very fascinating, seriously. But I am taking all of these forward-looking aspirational plans with a grain of salt. There is no question that EVs are going to become more and more common over this decade. The battery technology will improve, range will increase, charging stations will pop up all over the place. That said, automakers will continue to build what people want to buy. If we get to the early 2030s and a good portion of the population still wants ICE, even if its not GM, someone is going to make cars and trucks that run on gas or diesel. If gas reserves start getting scarce, the price of fuel will get to the point where most people prefer electric, and that's what they'll make and sell instead. If EVs get to the point where they are cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, and charge fast about as fast as a gasoline fill up, most folks will buy those instead, effectively killing internal combustion grocery getters. Its not going to just happen overnight on January of 2035 'cuz GM sez so though. GM, Chrysler and Ford almost completely stopped making cars vs trucks&suvs because people wanted something bigger to haul around the fam, and gas mileage hasn't been the most important factor recently - let that sink in. The dude who drives himself to work and back in a diesel Silverado, who really doesn't care about the mileage, isn't going to trade it in for a Chevy Volt because GM has a goal of 100% electric.

In 2007, the US "banned the incandescent light bulb". Anyone have a problem buying an incandescent light bulb for their garage or basement lately? Nope, me neither.

Same year, Milwaukee introduced the M18 battery platform for cordless tools. Fantastic improvement. Once the added powerful brushless motors to the mix, better than corded tools in almost every way. Anyone having a problem finding a corded drill/sander/saw lately? Nope, still out there, and they will be until people stop buying them.
 
#7 ·
We don't live in a world of absolutes or in a vacuum. As others have pointed out, the main issue is a massive capacity issue in the electrical grid and we can't solve that without exponential expansion of power generating facilities. What will we use to generate the power? What about the environmental costs of battery production and disposal? We can't even power our AC in the summer here in CA on some days. Will there be a 100% electric propulsion future, probably (whether battery powered, hydrogen, or other yet to be realized technology) but we can't legislate a hard stop in a fixed time window. It's going to be a transition that is nudged and subsidized a bit along the way with a sustainable and natural market migration away from fossil fuel.
 
#8 ·
Badger said:
In 2007, the US "banned the incandescent light bulb". Anyone have a problem buying an incandescent light bulb for their garage or basement lately? Nope, me neither.
Click to expand...
The bigger takeaway for me was everyone smugly buying those horrendous (environmentally, warm up time, and color tone (K rating)) fluorescent bulbs. LED lights were in the infancy but I knew they would be the better solution on every level, so I waited. The free market delivered a better solution, plain and simple. Now to be fair, it was the market disruption was caused by legislation that led to LED lights, but the entire personal transportation segment is a little different than light bulbs.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
All of these comments above are honest and true - for now. But the whole industry is moving towards electric, in a big way. Too big to stop. It may be true that there are still some folks who will want gas-powered cars in the mid 2030s, but they will either pay a high premium (because there would be no volume scale) for a dealer's odd remaining IC engined model, or be forced to buy used or hold onto their old used relics.

As for battery life, this is the challenge now in 2021. But fast-forward 10 years and tell me that at the pace of range improvements we've been seeing today, you don't think it's fair to say that 500-600 mile electric range is possible? Or, advances in cold-weather energy performance? The whole freaking industry of scientists and electrical engineers is hyper focused and big money-backed right now on these advances and evolution. Do not bet against them. There's billions at play and at stake here, and that's the real money factor that matters, not dying demand for gas engines by small percentage of hoonigans like us. We are really a dying breed - not many of us left. Admit it.

As for finding enough electricity to power all these electric cars in the future, great point. But, it will be done, even if it means burning more fossil fuels to generate the electricity needed. Ahh, yes, there is irony in that but it won't stop it from happening.

Lastly, and only because my new crystal ball is working well this morning, as soon as the first Ford Raptor or Ram TRX comes out with monster dual electric motors producing like 1200 equivalent HP and 0-60 times of 3 seconds for a 6000lb truck and gets at least 300 miles of range, it's GAME OVER for gas in middle-earth. We may hold-out, but for the first time, we'll actually look like "hold-outs." And that's the rub. All of us will eventually cave. Go ahead, use the REPLY button to stand tall and defiant and "disagree to high hell" but yes for sure you will cave, eventually. You will be buying and driving electric in the 2030s. Take a picture of this thread and print it out and tape it to your garage wall and leave it there for 10 years. I bet by that point, you have an EV in your stable.

BTW, I love how $5 light bulbs were brought into the conversation about $50,000 trucks. Good one. Nothing like debating apples vs apples. ;)
 
#10 ·
^^^Bruh, you're wound up pretty tight over this and you're missing the points being made. I don't see anyone denying electric propulsion having a very high likelihood of being the dominant motivating force in the future. I have no issues whatsoever with the concept of electric cars. In fact my wife is shopping for a Telsa 3 once her office opens back up (20 mile commute with charging stations at work). My argument and I think that of others is, we don't need sledgehammer legislation to make it a reality. By the way, it's not only us but most industry experts disagree with your hyperventilating over an all electric world in 2036, will be about 20% of the market.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Totally agree on not needing heavy legislation. Not only don't need, don't like it either. But, your last sentence was somewhat true (wouldn't say it was "most" industry experts but many), until this week when GM - the worlds third largest auto manufacturer - went "all-in" for total electric sales fleet by 2035, less than 14 years away. It's only one company today but the others will soon follow, prob in the next year or two. Their boards are moving in this direction quickly because they are all afraid of being last, and losing out to their competitors.

I'm far from hyperventilating - I will miss the IC engine, especially in sports car applications. I'm totally vexed that this 992 generation of Porsche's 911 will be the last only-IC generation. Porsche already intimated that the next era (in about 6 years or so) will be a turbo-hybrid electric powertrain. They put more than $6 Billion into electric vehicle development in the last few years (and they are a low volume manufacturer!!) and spent $770 million on a factory for the Taycan alone! Car companies don't spend billions like this on passing trends.
 
#12 ·
Europe is driving the push to electric...which I guess is fitting as their gas tax policies drove heavy diesel sales which ended up polluting more than gas vehicles with all those emission scandals. LOL!
They require 30 million vehicles on the road by 2030 to meet their "green" goals. So that is a big potential market!
Stellantis is further along on electric vehicle development that most know from what I've read.
GM might be taking a big risk...one thing for sure, that IC vehicles will be around for longer than you think. Electric vehicles will need to come down in price or salaries will have to increase...can't sell them right now other than Tesla and that is because they have a good charge system in place and a good name.
That new GM Hummer is $140K range...I could buy a TRX and fuel it for a long time before you break even buying the Hummer. So to get a quicker move to electric, gov't will have to regulate it to happen..which high gas tax, carbon taxes, ect. Wild card will be if there is some battery tech breakthrough that lowers the cost of them and increases range/charge capacity. With current $2.50 gal fuel costs the IC engine is still very competitive to electric.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Robdokwon said:
Zero emissions new cars and trucks only by GM as of 2035, the company announced today. See NY Times story:

www.nytimes.com

G.M. Will Sell Only Zero-Emission Vehicles by 2035 (Published 2021)

The move, one of the most ambitious in the auto industry, is a piece of a broader plan by the company to become carbon neutral by 2040.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

This means Stellantis and others will soon join behind. This likely means no more gas engined Durangos and Rams, etc... in less than 14 years. Better get familiar with electric torque, folks, and where to have your electrician install your home 50 amp charging port. It's coming.

Good news is, as a die-hard car guy, electric power is actually pretty cool. After I drove the Tesla Model 3 Performance, I was blown away. That car is faster than nearly all but supercars. And that tech will only get better from here. I would imagine that buy the mid 30's, they come up with viable solutions to make pick-up trucks and SUVs fun, fast and range-worthy. Do not despair. Exhaust sound will be a thing of the past, though.
Click to expand...
Adding a follow-up piece from the Times today supporting what I predicted above:

www.nytimes.com

Opinion | General Motors Is Counting on Your Loving Electric Cars (Published 2021)

The end of the gasoline-powered car will transform the economy.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Pressure is on. And, all the secondary and tertiary supply chain businesses making trannys and other IC related car parts better figure out how to pivot to making parts that electric cars use, like batteries, AC motors, brake regeneration equipment, etc... Race is on for survival. GM hit the car world on the head last week. The others are scrambling to make their own announcements soon.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
good catch on this article. Forget Hellcat, Hello "E-Cat!" hahaha. We need to enjoy the Hemi while it lasts. But I'm excited about kilowatts and big instant torque, too. Time to buy stock in companies making electric charging stations and the charging units themselves. Today there are a few here and there in shopping centers and parking lots and work garages, etc... But in 10 years, they will be EVERYWHERE you go, hundereds of thousands of them, all over the world, in every country. I want a piece of that action! Btw, never, never take stock buying advice from me. ;)
 
#18 ·
Robdokwon said:
Lastly, and only because my new crystal ball is working well this morning, as soon as the first Ford Raptor or Ram TRX comes out with monster dual electric motors producing like 1200 equivalent HP and 0-60 times of 3 seconds for a 6000lb truck and gets at least 300 miles of range, it's GAME OVER for gas in
Click to expand...
It will take longer for pickups to go all-electric. That 300 mile range may be while unloaded, but when towing it would be cut to what, 100 miles? That’s not feasible.
 
#19 ·
Really? You think people are going to hook up to electric pay stations and pay a premium to charge while having to sit around for 30-60 min?
I don't think so...only if its free otherwise the take rate will be low.
People will plug in at home...and if the E-vehicle can't service their weekly range, they won't buy it.
So home installations I see growing...but that is not cheap...probably a $2K bill to install a fast charger at home. 240v.
 
#20 ·
IvoryHemi said:
It will take longer for pickups to go all-electric. That 300 mile range may be while unloaded, but when towing it would be cut to what, 100 miles? That’s not feasible.
Click to expand...
They will need 500 mile range IMO...and there is more room for battery placement in a pickup, so I see it coming soon. But at what cost? $100K?
As Tesla found out, for electric to be profitable it has to be a high end product, not a low end product like Nissan and GM have approached the market.
Probably see more hybrids first before all electric and I'm sure the hybrids will outsell the all electric for quite a while.
 
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Robdokwon
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