Puzzling Intermittent Starting Problem

myamin · Jun 4, 2007

Hello all,

Our '99 D 5.9 with 120K miles on it fails to start intermittently without any traceable trend. Here are the symptoms:

a) We turn the switch, all the dashboard light come on but there's no crank at all.

b) Sometimes, it sounds like weak battery but then all of a sudden starts as normal as if nothing was wrong.

c) This happens perhaps once or twice a month.

Here's what we have done:

1) Replaced the battery.

2) Checked all wires.

3) Made sure by Sears that there's no leak.

I have spoken to my favorite mechanics and at first they said it's the battery but now they say it could either be

-- Starter
-- Safety switch
-- Starter solenoid

Has anyone else experienced this or knows what the problem might be?

thx,
Mohmd.

dizzyD · Jun 4, 2007

Have you tried the start in neutral thing??
Since you stated the bat was changed, I'd tend to think the neutral safety switch is going. Next time it happens, play with the shifter, make sure it's all the way into park, then wiggle it. if the wiggle bit works, the switch is the culprit

myamin · Jun 4, 2007

dizzyD said:
Have you tried the start in neutral thing??
Since you stated the bat was changed, I'd tend to think the neutral safety switch is going. Next time it happens, play with the shifter, make sure it's all the way into park, then wiggle it. if the wiggle bit works, the switch is the culprit

Strangely enough we have done this but still can't say if that's the one fixing the problem. For example, we move to N and then still doesn't start go back to P, no start, come back to N and starts like a charm.

Doesn't happen again for another month. Sometimes cold / moisture weather worsen the situation.

dizzyD · Jun 4, 2007

Try playing (wiggle in park) with the gear selector while turning the key (on start.) Keep foot on brake.

myamin · Jun 5, 2007

Could it be that Starter Selnoid gets in moisture when it's cold and damp? The problem increases when the car is cold and raining.

-M

skitzo.d · Jun 5, 2007

sorry, but it could still be the battery. I bought a brand new battery for my Jeep and it turned out I bought a bad battery. Red Top Optima, bad from the git-go. just because it's new, doesn't mean it's good. have it checked out before getting carried away replacing everything.

can't hurt and might save some cash?

MWeed · Jun 5, 2007

I don't think that we have heard of more than 1 or 2 bad starters for the run of this forum. Problem could be in several places: ignition switch, neutral safety switch, cable connections.

Pull them and polish them with a scotchbrite and baking soda at the battery and make them shine everywhere else. Make sure there's no paint between the connections. Every ground connection should have a star washer there to dig into the metal you're bolting it to for good contact.

Check the condition of the neutral safety switch connector. The switch can be replaced if bad, you have to pull the skid plate if so equipped prior to switch removal. You'll loose about a qt of ATF when you do this. The plug end of the cable that connects to the switch can be bad. This can be replaced.

grantos · Jun 6, 2007

Aloha mohmd,

hope I don't do to much repeating here. I'll try to do the trouble shooting item by item.

First off, Starter. If the starter turns, seems that should be OK.

Starter Solenoid. If you hear a clicking when you turn the key, it could be the solenoid or battery. I've seen over years with a few cars (not all or a lot) where the contacts become pitted/battered. What this does isn't allow the electrical current to get enough conduction to the starter. Therefore, you'll hear the "click" sound and suspect a bad battery. You can sort of check this if you measure battery voltage when you energize this circuit. Put a meter on the battery terminals. The voltage should read 12 or more volts. Now turn the key. If the battery voltage drops substianlly lower (10, 9, 8 volts), then the solenoid is probably OK and your battery's bad (even if it's a new battery) (or something's pulling the battery down (bad starter winding)).

Neutral switch - If when you turn the key, you don't hear any clicking (and the battery voltage still measures good), then it's a good chance it's either the neutral safety switch or the ignition switch is bad. Remember, battery voltage still measures good while your trying to crank engine. This means power never gets to starter or solenoid. If you hear the "click"' sound the ignition switch works, the neutral switch works and power is getting to the starter solenoid. Now it's just a matter of getting power to the starter motor.

Hope this helps with the troubleshooting.

Aloha,
g

myamin said:
Hello all,

Our '99 D 5.9 with 120K miles on it fails to start intermittently without any traceable trend. Here are the symptoms:

a) We turn the switch, all the dashboard light come on but there's no crank at all.

b) Sometimes, it sounds like weak battery but then all of a sudden starts as normal as if nothing was wrong.

c) This happens perhaps once or twice a month.

Here's what we have done:

1) Replaced the battery.

2) Checked all wires.

3) Made sure by Sears that there's no leak.

I have spoken to my favorite mechanics and at first they said it's the battery but now they say it could either be

-- Starter
-- Safety switch
-- Starter solenoid

Has anyone else experienced this or knows what the problem might be?

thx,
Mohmd.

myamin · Jun 6, 2007

Took the car to dealer today. They changed the starter. Lets see if it fixes the problem. Based on their history, I doubt it.

M.

grantos · Jun 14, 2007

myamin said:
Took the car to dealer today. They changed the starter. Lets see if it fixes the problem. Based on their history, I doubt it.

M.

Aloha M,

Follow up? Did the starter change fix your problem (so far??)??

Just wanting to know if you experienced any further problems.

aloha,
g

myamin · Jun 14, 2007

grantos said:
myamin said:

Took the car to dealer today. They changed the starter. Lets see if it fixes the problem. Based on their history, I doubt it.

M.

Click to expand...

Aloha M,

Follow up? Did the starter change fix your problem (so far??)??

Just wanting to know if you experienced any further problems.

aloha,
g

Hello -

So far no problem. But haven't been riding the D too much these days given gas prices in MA which I know isn't even a comparison to what you're paying in Hawaii.

Thanks for asking.

Mohammad

IndyDurango · Jun 15, 2007

stealer may have tightened a losse ground and charged you for a new starter. Did you get back the old used parts?

IndyDurango
via a hotel room in Chicago
(Arlington Heights actually)

FSTDANGO3 · Jun 15, 2007

IndyDurango said:
stealer may have tightened a losse ground and charged you for a new starter. Did you get back the old used parts?

IndyDurango
via a hotel room in Chicago
(Arlington Heights actually)

:wall: Lets hope that's not happenning that much :wall:
Steve
DOC Pres

NeilOman · Jun 19, 2007

I'll go with the dealer on this one. My old series 3 Landrover had the same problem. Sounded like the battery was flat and the starter, if it did turn, turned slowly. Sometimes it'd work fine.

It was the brushes inside the starter not making proper contact. So not enough current flowed for the starter to turn at full speed. Move the starter a little or give it knock with a hammer (essential tool for a Landrover) and everything would work again.

Neil

Law of averages says that sometimes the dealer has to be right!

MWeed · Jun 19, 2007

NeilOman, that's the classic Ford starter syndrome of the 50's/60's/70's. The cure was the hammer, prior to replacement. The cause was the bushings that supported the starter armature wore down so far that the armature was grounding on the starter frame. Slap it with the hammer and the armature would lift and break the ground and then spin to start the vehicle. That's where the old saying that "a Ford mechanics first tool was a big hammer" came from.

Puzzling Intermittent Starting Problem

myamin

dizzyD

myamin

dizzyD

myamin

skitzo.d

MWeed

grantos

myamin

grantos

myamin

IndyDurango

FSTDANGO3

NeilOman

MWeed

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