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Stereo Upgrade (No more EQ-bug worries)

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#21 ·
Excellent thread! I am a major audio enthusiast and it appears that @BlackPearl has very similar taste and design logic to mine. I've used many MS-8's and built them into systems similar to the Durango's factory setup with great success.

I'll try to add what I've learned to this thread which is going to be my guide for my upgrade path. A few things I've learnt on my system is, being a 2015 with Beats Audio, she's really, really good out of the box. I'm going to go through every inch of the car with KnuKonceptz Kolossus deadening, and use Ensolite and other closed cell foams, and radiant barrier I've sourced locally at an upholstery shop I frequent. That stuff is amazing. But that's really the biggest flaw in the audio setup for 2015... the rattles and resonances. Next for me will probably be a stealthed-in Sundown SD3 sub in the factory area, optimized to play lower with more authority. Other than that, this setup is tonally accurate and the stage isn't bad for a non-processed system. In audio circles / forums, I'm known as "fourthmeal" and also by my name "Lanson" if you ever get to play around on DIYMA and the same ilk.
 
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#22 ·
I have been waiting for this to start happening. I could not believe that it took so long for people to get out of keeping the factory stuff when better equipment was out there. If it's too loud, you're too old. As long as it's clean and crisp.
 
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#23 ·
Clean being the most critical thing to me.

That's what's so impressive with MS-8 installs, as long as the outputting head unit is "clean". The MS-8 complains during setup if the output is noisy so you sorta know what you can and can't do. That said, I would say consider an MS-8 anytime there's a center channel, and other processors (the list is small but there are alternatives) if you have no center channel and no way to get one in.

Personally, I'd kill for an MS-10 or 12 or something, like a new gen variant of the same with a better screen and better logic with more channels. Helix and a few other high end names are getting there, but I really enjoyed all my MS-8 builds and the fact it wasn't hyper-exclusive or crazy expensive. I mean $400-500 isn't cheap, but you get a lot for that.

We're in a new era of computing and I'd like to see car audio stuff head that direction finally.
 
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#26 ·
I'm going to be sound deadening and replacing the speakers in all the doors this weekend as a start. How are the door panels in these things held on? Just clips? Any screws? Anything I should look out for or be careful with? I have a trim set and I am no stranger to pulling interior panels but I just want to know of any difficulties before I dive in and then have to spend part of my weekend looking for replacement clips. Thanks in advance
 
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#28 ·
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#30 · (Edited)
Wanted to bring this thread back amongst the living. BlackPearl, I'm beginning my run through the vehicle soon, just wanted to see if you had a chance to tear into the center channel area. For MS-8 builds, the center can be an important piece of the puzzle. My gameplan is to try to run the ID XS6x9's paired actively with a nice tweeter, a matching center as big as I can fit, and then probably tone down the rears significantly. I intend to use a micro-amp to power the rear door speakers and the D-pillars in a shared surround mode, with the D-pillar output turned way down. The MS-8 can handle this type of diffuse rear.

So BlackPearl, did you touch the center or get a chance to dig around in there? And when you did your Focals, do you remember how much depth was available for those front speaker openings? I can of course make baffle plates to gain some depth if needed.

edit: I've even debated leaving the factory system's processing aspects largely alone (because it is pretty good for OEM), and just adding amplifier power or supplementing. I could even use a C-DSP from MiniDSP (which I've used in other builds) to get some powerful EQ control over the system, much more than an MS-8 can give (but I'd give up center channel control.). The trouble is that the MS-8 does surround very nicely, whereas the C-DSP simply is stereo or I should say 4ch input, but can do almost anything stereo with them.
 
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#31 · (Edited)
Hello @BlackPearl, this thread is perfect. thanks for posting the pics and taking time on the pin-out desriptions for MS8.

Since the same head-unit in Limited model (without "Alpine + Sub" ) is five channels, I'm assuming the Citadel 9-channel is provided by the "Beats/Alpine" AMP converting 5 channels (from head unit) to 9 channels.

Can't the JBL MS-8 do this conversion? I'm wondering why people are keeping the stinko OEM amplifier in the equation for these upgrades.

Any insight would be appreciated. thanks -GA
 
#32 ·
dsga1 said:
Since the same head-unit in Limited model (without "Alpine + Sub" ) is five channels
Click to expand...
Four.

dsga1 said:
I'm assuming the Citadel 9-channel is provided by the "Beats/Alpine" AMP converting 5 channels (from head unit) to 9 channels.
Click to expand...
B/A amp does all the DSP and is the preamp as well.

dsga1 said:
I'm wondering why people are keeping the stinko OEM amplifier in the equation for these upgrades.
Click to expand...
Because there is no preamp in the 8.4, the volume/eq controls are nothing more than commands sent to the amplifier preamp/DSP via CAN bus. Pull the DSP/amp and you have no eq/volume control. It can be done, but you will rely on a third party preamp/DSP unit and your volume knob will have no use/purpose. Be patient, CAN bus compliant options are right around the corner. Here are some photos.
 
#33 ·
sincere thanks for all the details and clarification. I've been doing some research on automotive CAN bus and surprised that high-speed SERIAL can communicate all required audio signal for AMP to do it's thing. I see that CAN bus part of OBD-II "required" standard but holy cow. maybe we can loan the CAN bus to the AIR TRAFFIC Controller network... doah.
 
#35 ·
This is awesome. The factory rear speakers suck compared to the beats 6x9 in the front. What speakers can I place in the rear that will be close in power and sound to the beats in the front?
 
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#36 ·
BlackTopRT said:
This is awesome. The factory rear speakers suck compared to the beats 6x9 in the front. What speakers can I place in the rear that will be close in power and sound to the beats in the front?
Click to expand...
I have a feeling I'll be using this meme I generated quite frequently.

Image
 
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#39 ·
Ill add to this as Im getting ready to start my mild system install.

Do we know if the 6x9 driver in the base 8.4 system IE. "6 speaker" is a full range signal.

Also does the base system use an amp/DSP or is there passive cross overs in the doors from the factory.

I already bought an LC2i and would love to not have to get a lC6 to "sum"-----my goals are subs and new front components. If the 6x9 is a full range signal then Im golden with the LC2i
 
#40 · (Edited)
Sirk17 said:
Ill add to this as Im getting ready to start my mild system install.

Do we know if the 6x9 driver in the base 8.4 system IE. "6 speaker" is a full range signal.

Also does the base system use an amp/DSP or is there passive cross overs in the doors from the factory.

I already bought an LC2i and would love to not have to get a lC6 to "sum"-----my goals are subs and new front components. If the 6x9 is a full range signal then Im golden with the LC2i
Click to expand...
I think the front two woofers are full-range. I didn't see anything special to tell me otherwise. Granted mine was "Beats" but it all seems very simple. Base system should be without any DSP or anything else in the way. Should be radio to speakers, direct-shot. A DISTINCT advantage, if you ask me. If it were mine, I'd use a high-grade line-output converter to a MiniDSP 6x8 (or use a quality processor that takes direct speaker-in), and reconfigure the output of the front two woofers to run the whole system, with the system faded full-forward.

edit: The base system appears to have the tweeters in-line parallel with the woofers, probably through a VERY basic crossover on the tweeter, and the woofer is likely rolling off naturally through inductance. My guess is 4kHz cross, but that's a guess.
 
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