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98durango :

If you're thinking about the M-1 I'd seriously ask Dan Acrand about it. AKA Fastman at thefastman.com If you have a stock D especially with a 5.2 you may experience a low end torque loss. I have noticed a torque loss especially when towing. It doesn't bother me as I don't tow too much. The power at 2500rpm + is much improved. I however don't have headers or a decent exhaust either which would help a lot.

I honestly don't see a problem with the Hughes aluminum cover. I haven't heard anything bad about them.

Todd
 
98durango said:
Well after finally having time to pop the air hat off, I looked down into the throttle body and saw and smelled some oily residue. Does this mean that the gasket has failed?

I know Hughes make a replacement gasket but is that my only option to replace it?

How much time do I have to replace it before a catastrophic ($$$) break down occurs?
The replacement gasket from Mopar is thicker than the original one, and should last a long time. Other aftermarket companies like Fel-Pro and Victor Reinz also make one, but I'm not sure how theirs compares to the revised Mopar gasket. I've never had a problem with either of the aforementioned gasket companies, though I do prefer Victor Reinz over Fel-Pro, but it's just personal preference.

As for a catastrophic failure, it's not good to have pinging in any engine, so I'd probably get it taken care of reasonably soon. Though it'd take very severe detonation to destroy an engine, it's still not good to have any.
The gasket itself causing a failure, well, it's unlikely. Only thing it's going to do if it does get worse is allow more oil to get sucked into the plenum, and if a severe enough leak occurs, poor idle quality and possible misfires and driveability problems may occur.

If it doesn't take care of the pinging, at least you ruled it out as a possible cause, and other suggestions in this thread may need to be explored.
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
Thank you all very much for you suggestions and input. Greatly apprectiated :)
 
The catastrophic failure would be due to the undetected lose of oil (do a search, it's well documented) caused by the plenum gasket leak. Some have reported losing all the motor oil within a few hundred miles. If your plenum gasket shows the tell-tale signs of failure, fix it ASAP.
 
Well documented where? I've been on this forum and others for 7 years and I haven't heard of any engine failures due to plenum gasket leak. It's not going to suck that much oil that fast. If you intake were ingesting that much oil you'd be making one big cloud of smoke.
 
Search the archives. It can, and has, caused engine failure due to oil loss. Just because you've been uninformed on this subject is no reason to say it can't happen (unless other's documented experiences are wrong.)

The plenum gasket can fail and the related vacuum leak can suck motor oil from the lifter valley area into the intake manifold. How much and how quick would be related to the size of the leak and it's a fairly good size gasket.

Who else can relate to rapid oil loss from this problem? I seem to remember one case documented where they lost all oil in 300 miles and the engine seized.
 
I suppose it's possible to use that much oil without knowing it. I have seen two vehicles come thru our shop using excessive oil that rarely, if ever produced visible smoke. One was a '92 Civic, and the other was a '94 Saturn. I'm thinking the catalytic convertors are so efficient on these cars that it'd clean up any visible oil smoke that would normally be seen out the tailpipe. The Civic was documented as using, get this?5 quarts in 120 miles! Not once was any visible exhaust smoke noted. My own mechanic drove this car on this road test over a weekend and that's what he noted for oil consumption.

Not sure if the cats on our Durangos are this efficient, but I suppose it's possible. Unlikely, but possible.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
I guess the bottom line is?it's better to be safe and fix the problem sooner rather than later!
 
pinging

PJB, there hasn't been a post on this forum, that I can remember, where anyone has lost an engine due to the Plenum gasket sucking all of the oil out of the engine. To do that your D would look like a world war II battleship laying down a smoke screen when driving it and your catalytic convertor would plug up and cause the engine to run like someone had stuffed a potato up the exhaust pipe.
 
The plenum gasket can rapidly suck up engine oil. The associated vacuum leak can cause pinging due to an excessively lean condition. Driveability doesn't suffer much and little, if any, smoke is detected. Most information I have comes from this and other forums (dodgetalk and some Dakota website I don't recall.) I only post things when I have personal experience on the subject and share the info I found that helped me. I fixed my plenum gasket before the oil consumption got out of hand because of the experiences that were posted by others. If you want to say it couldn't happen go ahead.

My advice to the person with the pinging problem - look for the tell-tale signs of a leaking plenum gasket. If you find signs of a leak, go buy a quality gasket set and fix the problem. Or take it to your dealer like the "experts" here do.
 
pjb said:
The catastrophic failure would be due to the undetected lose of oil (do a search, it's well documented) caused by the plenum gasket leak. Some have reported losing all the motor oil within a few hundred miles.
pjb said:
Search the archives. It can, and has, caused engine failure due to oil loss.
pjb said:
Most information I have comes from this and other forums (dodgetalk and some Dakota website I don't recall.) I only post things when I have personal experience on the subject and share the info I found that helped me.
Three times now you've posted that engine failure due to a bad intake manifold gasket is well documented (suggesting a search of the archives would uncover this fact), well?

I didn't have anything better to do yesterday, so I spent a little over 4 hrs trying every search combination of engine failure, engine seizure, gasket failure, oil loss, etc., etc., etc. that I could come up with and couldn't find even a single post made to either the DOC's Forum I, Forum II or Forum III where someone lost an engine (or even a significant amount of oil) due to a bad intake manifold gasket! I bothered to do this because, like other posters to this thread, I've been hanging out here on the DOC Forums for a very long time (My First Forum Post - 13 May 99) and couldn't recall anyone "ever" posting about such an engine failure?? (Hey, once you reach "old fart" age, you start to worry that maybe your memory's going south withoutcha! :cheesy:)

Since none of us can remember such posts and a pretty thorough search of the archives can't find them, I'd say it's time for you to show all us old farts we really are losing it and post a link to a few of these "well documented cases" you refer to!?!?
 
TheDodgeGuy said:
pjb said:
or take it to your dealer like the "experts" here do.
ROTFLMAO!! Owned!

Now that's funny! Probably because there's an air of truth to it.

High-five.
As for me personally, I try to avoid the dealer like the plague. I have saved my membership costs here many times over by using the recommendations and personal experiences of our 'experts'. Often is is just knowing where to get the right info at the right time. I believe that's called 'expertise' thus by definition bestowed by an 'expert'. However I don't real anyone calling *themselves* an expert, maybe just granted that title by others.

So if I may do some granting, I'd say there are experts here, as to whether you had the opportunity yet to converse with them may be at question.

Also personally I've had the real "dealer experts' be wrong many times on my vehicles. SO that opens the question of what's an expert really? Do the dealers have D Only techs, I doubt it. Some here are D only members here. So? :?:

I'll assume your 55 posts certainly added 'expert' value to some topic along the way. And Mike, 'owned' who? Aren't you a 'expert' Weren't your opinions and posts just called to question? Happy you were 'owned'?

Quoting Rodney Clark (gag) "Can't we all just get along?" and quoting myself, "Opinions are like belly?" oh nevermind :)

Back on topic: if you're losing oil and your D is sick, get it fixed right away. Self medicate, holistic methods or go to the doctor. Bad things happen when you wait.

Macintosh Computer Expert
Digital Printing Expert
Boy Scout Expert
Fishing Expert
Eating Expert
aka
IndyDurango
 
The "owned" was anyone who professes to be an expert that doesn't do any of their own work, but has an ability to find a (usually) correct answer to help someone else out even though they have no real worl experience in such a topic.

It wasn't aimed at anyone personally.

I just thought it was incredibly funny the way that pjb worded his reply.
 
As for me?the $50 or so I spent on my '01 FSM has saved me TONS?I don't do the dealer thing. On a bad day I'm as dumb as their smartest tech?so that means most times I'm smart enough to figure it out, researching my FSM and effecting a good, quality repair.

What's that bad day, dumb, smart thing??
 
TheDodgeGuy said:
The "owned" was anyone who professes to be an expert that doesn't do any of their own work, but has an ability to find a (usually) correct answer to help someone else out even though they have no real worl experience in such a topic.
I call that helpful and am always appreciative of any help I can get. AND the price is always right whereas I get at least what I paid for it.

IndyDurango
 
Although I haven't heard of anyone on the forum losing much oil? When mine went bad it was only about a quart every 4+ weeks.
My brother in law had a 2000 Ram with a 5.2 and he lost a lot of oil. He had the oil changed by a "lubepro" type of place and checked it after a week of driving it was low. Figured they just didn't get enough in so he filled it. After driving for a week or two he was talking about it and I told him to check his oil again just because of reported problems of bad gaskets. Sure enough it didn't even touch the dipstick, he put in 3quarts?

Moral keep a real good eye on it till you get it fixed most aren't real bad but you never know.

Todd
 
"Owned"? Sounds like the type of language from 'The Fast and the Furious'?
 
I did a google search using "dodge plenum gasket failure". here are some quotes from hits on the first page.

Answer by 1dennis3
Submitted on 6/4/2004
Rating: Not yet rated Rate this answer: N/A Worst Weak OK Good Great
I have a 1999 Dodge Ram with the 360 with 55000 miles. I have installed the K&N cold air intake system as well as a throttle spacer, dual Thrustmaster exhaust and reprogramed the computer chip. All this in an attempt to get better mileage. Before all this I was averaging about 9 MPG and now I average about 12 MPG. Over the past weekend I drove it to a lake (300 miles one way) pulling my boat that weighs about 7000 lbs. It cost me $250 in gas and burned 9 quarts of oil! I went to my Dodge dealer and told them of my experience and the mechanic said "I'll bet it was pinging pretty good to" Yes it was. He said that I need an intake gasket. He said that this would solve the problem of burning oil and would help the MPG as well. Has anyone else had this experience?

if the plenum gasket is blown bad you could be running on a half a quart of oil and your gauge is gonna read 40 or so, then you get on the highway and boom your done, game over.

Shirley of Stockton CA (10/30/03):
4-99 I bought a new Dodge Durango. Had the car 2 1/2 years. At 32,000 miles my engine blew. I had previous problems with the oil pressure dropping. When I took the car in they said they needed to replace the intake manifold. It was replaced and still same problem. 6 months later while driving from one state to another for vacation, I hear my engine knocking. Next thing you know it's getting louder and louder.

furyous03-21-2004, 12:11 AM
your first sign will be oil consumption. to confirm, disconnect the PVC and plug both the valve and the vacuum hose to the manifold. then disconnect the breather hose going from the valve cover to the intake hat and check for crankcase vacuum. any more than slight vacuum indicates a plenum leak. Other members have posted you can also check for oil at the bottom of the manifold (looking through the throttle body) but I found checking for vacuum easier than climbing up into my engine compartment.

Defective Engines - Dodge Durango
Posted By: Anonymous on 10/7/2003

Location: Plymouth, MI

I'm the owner of a 1999 Dodge Durango with a 5.9L engine. At around the 78,000 mile mark, the vehicle began to experience sporadic loss of oil pressure and spark knock on acceleration.

Although there was no visible oil leak, it became apparent that the engine was consuming oil. A single inquiry to a competent mechanic brought to my attention your Technical Service Bulletin 09-05-00, which discusses an intake manifold plenum pan gasket oil leak defect common in your 5.2L and 5.9L gasoline engines. Obviously, A defect such as this could quickly have a catastrophic effect on the life of this very expensive engine.

I have no more to say on this subject.
 
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