Car Shopping - Not Having Any Fun!

QuantizedKi · Apr 10, 2015

Yeah, it is pretty brutal.

Me at dealership: "Hello, I've searched province wide for a 2014 Durango with the features I want. Nothing is out there so here's a build sheet from Dodge.com. Order the car, here's the price I'm looking for."
Dealer: "CHECK OUT THIS DURANGO WE HAVE ON OUR LOT!!!!!!!!!! IT'S AMAZING EVERYTHING YOU'RE LOOKING FOR!!!!!"
Me: "Um, it's a 2012... I see no DVD... it's white..."
Dealer: "WHITE IS THE HOTTEST COLOUR. IT's THE NEW BLACK!"
Me: "Please, take this sheet here, see it's all nice and laid out for you, and just order the damn car."
Dealer: "Come on man, I'm struggling here... can't you help me out? Let's work together on this Durango we have on the lot. Ain't she a beaut?"
Me: "Take this sheet. Order the car. Call me when it's ready."
Dealer: "Fine..."

It's like pulling teeth to give them a sale for a $50k+ car.

Ivanstein · Apr 10, 2015

Durangutan said:
Here is a great idea...

For ordering vehicles, you should be able to build and order it yourself directly from FCA. They could make a human available to you via phone or chat if you want extra assistance, but otherwise you could do the whole thing online. You pay an additional $500 maybe for home delivery, or maybe it just still comes to the dealership of your choice. Eliminate that stealership altogether. Obviously, for normal off-the-lot sales it would still work as it does today. Why not make a direct manufacturer order option available? I swear, I'm a tightwad and I would pay a lot for that option.

It will never happen. Too many people getting g rich being the middle man. Its actually a law that cars are sold through the dealer and can not be sold factory direct. IIRC, it was set up in some monopoly prevention laws a long time ago.

Strangely enough, movie tickets are overpriced because of the exact same reason. In the early days, the studios owned the theaters. If you wanted to see an MGM movie, you had to go to their theater. Etc. Then anti-monolopy laws took effect and studios can't own theaters.

This is all good for the 1920's when the competition could be eliminated by locality, but in today's global market where its quite feasible to find your ride at some private sale in the Black Forest and have it shipped over, monopoly laws are antiquated and only serve to pad dealer's pockets.

Ivanstein · Apr 10, 2015

Durangutan said:
Never say never; just about anything is on the table in this digital age we live in. So I think it will happen? Nah. But it's a real shame it isn't a reality at this point. Hell, if it's some dealer/law thing, have that online order thing happen via a dealer website. That way the legal parts can be met and the stealer can get their cut, yet I can still be the one placing the order and talking to FCA directly. To dream...

Yep. Its a real shame. I can order a laptop factory direct, why not my car?

GBR! · Apr 10, 2015

Durangutan said:
Why not make a direct manufacturer order option available? I swear, I'm a tightwad and I would pay a lot for that option.

Pretty sure that's illegal in most states. That is the very issue that Elon Musk and his Tesla brand is running into. The only way to buy those cars are direct from Tesla, there are no dealers. Many states make that illegal because car dealerships (which are many times locally and all independently owned) employ tons of people in each state and state's want to protect that. Therefore, they make it illegal for car manufacturers to sell direct to consumer. Car manufacturers need dealers and dealers need the manufacturers. It's the only way the relationship works.

Durangutan · Apr 10, 2015

Ivanstein said:
Yep. Its a real shame. I can order a laptop factory direct, why not my car?

I can order everything I need to build and furnish my entire home; heck, I can probably even order a whole house. I can fill my life with toys, games, appliances, tools, software, hardware, electronics, food, TV, you name it- I can even order a wife! But No!!! I can't order a car myself. I can order every single individual part of an automobile, but I can't get an MSO to actually title it. That makes sense?

Ivanstein · Apr 10, 2015

Durangutan said:
I can order everything I need to build and furnish my entire home; heck, I can probably even order a whole house. I can fill my life with toys, games, appliances, tools, software, hardware, electronics, food, TV, you name it- I can even order a wife! But No!!! I can't order a car myself. I can order every single individual part of an automobile, but I can't get an MSO to actually title it. That makes sense?

Nope...unless you're a car dealer. Plus, you don't have the opportunity to be bombarded with "up sells" of worthless extended warranties and special oil in the engine and nitrogen in the tires all for a low monthly addition to your payment. Damn the competitive nature of the internet!!!

CKngAdventure · Apr 10, 2015

SLAINTE06 said:
Yeah same here, mine was still at the port, BUT had everything I wanted and deal was 80 miles away as closer dealer coudnt compete with their price. Did whole deal online and even on their page it says "whole deal online and we will ship to you" Great experience, but Florida little too far from LA. Good luck with those deal A holes. Also another idea would be go to dealerrator.com, see any dealers close that are highly rated, that may help??

Thank you.

My vehicle is a factory order and will not exist on anyone's lot. To date, only one dealer has been interested in an order and he won't even validate his own build sheet.

QuantizedKi · Apr 10, 2015

It really is stupid. I hope Tesla completely changes the dealer landscape.

Shelbyguy · Apr 10, 2015

Report: Gov. Christie allows Tesla sales in New Jersey

sbmG8GT · Apr 10, 2015

CKngAdventure said:
If the remaining contestants on Durango Dealer Survivor are not banished from the island tomorrow, I will join the Cosco program.

Are you a Costco member? If so you don't have to join any program. You just go to their site and see what dealers are members. They have specific contacts at those dealers and also set pricing, right now it's invoice minus $500 regardless if you order or not. It will at least give you some hard numbers to haggle with other dealers over.

CKngAdventure · Apr 10, 2015

All:

I am being offered a deal of $900 under invoice. What do you think?

ppowell1983 · Apr 10, 2015

That's not too bad.

GBR! · Apr 10, 2015

I know car salesmen and dealerships are a pain in the ass to deal with at times but be careful what you wish for. If car manufacturers were able to sell direct to consumer that is going to put many (if not all) dealerships out of business. Once those dealerships are gone then guess what the manufacturers will do with much, much less competition in the market? Raise prices. You can't have it both ways...everyone loves being able to get 10%-15% off MSRP, but do you know how you're able to do that? Dealers competing for your $$$. With dealers out of the question and you needing a new car you're going to either be driving a much cheaper car or pay a hell of a lot more for your Durango.

All of that would not be good and I didn't even mention what would happen to the overall economy if the roughly 17,000 dealers and their employees in the US were to close their doors.

GBR! · Apr 10, 2015

Durangutan said:
I don't agree with that at all. You're saying that if dealer direct sales were made possible, an entire industry would dry up? Not a chance. Does anyone have any numbers concerning off-lot vs. ordered sales? I imagine it's far less impacting than you think. There are still many logistical hurdles to consider, for example trade-ins of old vehicles, that would necessitate having the dealer involved in some way. I also disagree that prices would go up while quality would plunge. I think that line of reasoning is far on the most extreme side of the realm of possible outcomes.

But, all that is neither here nor there for our friend who is struggling with multiple dealerships trying to buy a new D. Carry on CKngAdventure!

No, I'm not saying an entire industry would dry up. There are always going to be car manufacturers. There will also always be used car dealers. The 17,000 dealer number I mentioned is the number of new car dealers in the US. There are well over 100,000 used car dealers out there. They aren't going anywhere no matter what. If the manufacturers were able to sell directly to consumers for whatever price they want then that would undoubtedly put dealers out of business. If you were Dodge would you rather sell 10,000 Durango's to dealers across the country for $38K average and let them mark them up to $42K average similar to the current new car sales system? Or, given the option would you rather sell your 10,000 Durango's directly to consumers for $40K average and cut the dealers out of it while making way more money? Of course it's going to be the 2nd option, and of course you would rather buy the same car for $40K instead of $42K. Simple economics.

QuantizedKi · Apr 10, 2015

Couldn't an argument be made that prices would go lower?

- Real price from the start rather than negotiable so the starting price would be lower than today's MSRP.
- Manufacturer wouldn't be paying dealership sales incentives.
- No "admin" fees or other dealership fees.

If all the dealerships went away, car companies would still be competing with each other (e.g., Dodge vs. Ford, etc.) so prices wouldn't shoot up across the board.

CKngAdventure · Apr 10, 2015

I hate to hijack the thread, but does anyone else have any advice on whether $900 below invoice is a good deal? This is what I am asking for:

General

Vehicle: 2015 Dodge Durango RT (Blacktop Edition)
Color: Granite Crystal Metallic

Late Availability Options

Interior: Red Nappa Leather
Sound: Beats by Dre

Packages

BLACKTOP PACKAGE
SECOND-ROW FOLD / TUMBLE CAPTAIN CHAIRS
TRAILER TOW GROUP IV
PREMIUM NAPPA LEATHER GROUP (RED)
SECOND-ROW CONSOLE WITH ARMREST AND STORAGE
TECHNOLOGY GROUP
Uconnect 8.4AN AM/FM/SXM/HD/BT/NAV

Options

Power Sunroof

What do you think?

bcrystlazrt · Apr 10, 2015

Awesome specs

Good luck!

GBR! · Apr 10, 2015

QuantizedKi said:
Couldn't an argument be made that prices would go lower?

- Real price from the start rather than negotiable so the starting price would be lower than today's MSRP.
- Manufacturer wouldn't be paying dealership sales incentives.
- No "admin" fees or other dealership fees.

If all the dealerships went away, car companies would still be competing with each other (e.g., Dodge vs. Ford, etc.) so prices wouldn't shoot up across the board.

In the beginning, sure, prices would probably be lower because you would have the manufacturer competing with the dealerships inventory. Once those dealerships inventory is gone and they realize they can't sell any cars because everyone is ordering them directly from the supplier then the manufacturer has much less incentive to keep prices low. Sure they would still have to compete with one another but what happens when you don't want a Chevy Traverse or Ford Explorer and your other option is a Durango? Well then you pay whatever the 1 and only source (manufacturer) of that car says you pay. In the car world right now in that situation you technically have over 2,000 options because that's how many (estimate) Dodge dealers there are.

Durangutan · Apr 10, 2015

I deleted my off topic musings, it seems to be irking OP. No worries, it did drift off into warm water anyway.

What's your actual end price looking at right now, and does that include incentives and rebates?

CKngAdventure · Apr 10, 2015

Durangutan said:
I deleted my off topic musings, it seems to be irking OP. No worries, it did drift off into warm water anyway.

What's your actual end price looking at right now, and does that include incentives and rebates?

I was not irked, my friend. I was just afraid that people who could help me would lose site of my issue. The build sheet shows $48,510.00 but does not provide the invoice price. I am told they will take $900 off of the invoice price and then take off any incentives/rebates.

Car Shopping - Not Having Any Fun!

QuantizedKi

Ivanstein

Ivanstein

GBR!

Durangutan

Ivanstein

CKngAdventure

QuantizedKi

Shelbyguy

sbmG8GT

CKngAdventure

ppowell1983

GBR!

GBR!

QuantizedKi

CKngAdventure

bcrystlazrt

GBR!

Durangutan

CKngAdventure

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